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Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

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Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#221

Post by vertex-four »

Chris2048 wrote: post #208
vertex-four wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly because women often get pulled into meetings with their bosses/HR and told to wear makeup if they don't. Seriously. Even if they don't, they get accused by work colleagues of not looking good enough, and clients comment on it. This isn't something women do to be manipulative - it's something that's enforced as part of a woman's dress code by the company. Or, in other words, if you think makeup is intended to r…

Then campaign against it. Until then, "corporate expectation" is a convenient excuse, despite the fact that many corporations will fold in the face of any social pressure. Like how "men" are claimed to be responsible for pressuring women into unrealistic body images, despite the fashion industry being run, and chosen by women.

We have been for decades? Like, this was a part of second-wave feminism half a decade ago. It's hardly a new idea.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#222

Post by phrygian »

jopsen wrote: post #110

> the next person who manufactured an allegation to attack a business competitor got a twenty-year (or even two-year) jail sentence. haha, typical Americans... let's throw more people in jail. Empathy is in short supply for sure.

You may need to contextualise your statement. Empathy in what sense? There is a nonzero chance the falsely accused might actually get thrown in jail, not to talk about the potentially immense reputational damage that may be difficult to repair. I'm not really sure what you are getting at with your pitch.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#224

Post by matt4077 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #186
Klockan wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women get sexually harassed or assaulted much more than they fabricate allegations for personal gain (and note that this is not what happened in this case), as a woman rarely gains from making allegations, either true or false. I don't understand the logic here, are you saying that men gain more from sexually harassing women than women gain from falsely accusing men? I think you would have a hard time finding a man…

I think GP is simply implying that, since "a woman rarely gains from making allegations, either true or false", she doesn't have a strong incentive to make false accusations. Which is IMO a fair explanation, though personally I disagree with the assumption here. The way sexual harassment is treated these days, even a vague false accusation is a very powerful weapon. Hell, even a threat of an accusation is a powerful…

Sorry to interrupt your little men-only discussion "women: willing victim or scheming accuser?".

But did any of you notice that the alleged false accuser in this case is actually a man?

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#225

Post by sddfd »

microcolonel wrote: post #126
mrkrabo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is crazy to use your real name to comment on stuff. I limit my real name to GitHub, and even there I always try to comment on stuff like a robot would.

You may be right from the practical perspective. As a matter of principle I refuse to cower and slink around the internet. If I am judged, maligned, or inconvenienced by people's opinions of what I say, then so be it. At least I can say I didn't spend every day in moral retreat as the loudest people get their way. I am Aaron Muir Hamilton and I'm not afraid of words.

I respect your stance. However, it is also clear that you haven't been under fire yet :)

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#226

Post by Lev1a »

peteretep wrote: post #213
spodek wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man accused of sexual harassment is a real victim, if his accusation is correct. Why do people not see men as victims? His reputation could be ruined for the rest of his life, even if he is innocent. People take the law into their own hands and could physically hurt him as a result of a false accusation amid a system that disregards due process. This community -- Hacker News -- is considering creating a list to n…

> Why do people not see > men as victims? Why do you think they don't?

Because they're apparently sexist idiots like you who don't think men and women should be treated equally? They somehow got the notion stuck in their heads that men just can't be in the victim role when in reality it's not that rare for men to be in that position (Hint: It doesn't get reported because of the exact stigma mentioned above).

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#227

Post by matt4077 »

peoplewindow wrote: post #155
vkou wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's suppose that false rape accusations are a wide-spread problem. They aren't, they are far rarer then actual cases of rape, but let's suppose that they are. How exactly do you propose to deal with them, without a chilling effect on reporting real rapes? It is a crime that is notoriously hard to convict, to the point where most victims keep silent.

> They aren't, they are far rarer then actual cases of rape This is not a statement of fact, that's an assumption you've made. Actual studies of this are rare and usually bitterly disputed, but part of the reason they're rare is that they tend to reveal alarmingly high false reporting rates. I mean truly disturbingly high. If you look at cases which are proven to be false, the rate is usually suggested to be somewher…

> The most famous study (by Kanin)[..]

And that study is deeply flawed: that one small midwestern police department used polygraphs on accusers. That's a practice that has long been shunned because (a) polygraphs are (now) known to usually find the investigator's opinion reflected in statistical noise, and (b) the victims (rightfully) see the test as an accusation and prefer to recant for fear of prosecution.

The study mostly used the investigator's judgement, and used the victims admission only when it that was given. Question: if you go to 100 actual false accusers ten years after that incident, and ask them "Did you falsely accuse X of rape back then?". Do you really believe that 40% would be stupid enough to tell you?

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#228

Post by Turing_Machine »

peteretep wrote: post #216
TeMPOraL wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which suggests an obvious course of action: - true accusation - punish the perpetrator - false accusation - punish the accuser - unable to confirm either way - nothing happens I still don't understand why some people have so much trouble with this concept and want to bias towards "guilty until proven innocent" thinking. And yes, I know that in civil cases in the US, it's "preponderance of the evidence" and not "presu…

> suggests an obvious > course of action Do you not think people already get jailed for claims that are probably false?

Almost never.

It does happen, but it's so rare that it generally makes headlines when it does.

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#229

Post by matt4077 »

ruleabidinguser wrote: post #223
matt4077 wrote: post #199

Thousands of women experience sexual violence, every day. What gets Hacker News as excited as the end of Flash? The rare false accusation.

I guess we're all evil women haters then

By and large, yes.

(Although, and it bears repeating: in this case everyone is hating on those women running around falsely accusing good upstanding men just for the fun of it, without ever realising that the false accuser in this case is actually a man)

Re: Lawsuit: Sexual harassment ‘victim’ was San Francisco business rival in disguise

#230

Post by olegkikin »

matt4077 wrote: post #214
mcappleton wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False accusations should be punished with the same penalty as the accuser tried to put upon the innocent. Until that happens, people will see no reason to stop false accusations that they think will help them.

Do you believe that the harm of being raped is about equal to the harm of a false conviction for rape? I'd actually tend to "yes", but it's probably impossible to answer. People react very different, and the prevalence of suicide is actually higher among rape victims than for people sentenced to long prison sentences. But the real problem is: The penalty in your comparison would be for rape, whereas the accusation wa…

I'd rather be raped than spend years in prison. Time is more precious than momentary pain/shame. Plus I hear rapists (real or falsely accused) are treated extra badly in prisons.
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