Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

sec.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 360 posts

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#91

Post by SolarNet »

oneplane wrote: post #30
dmitrygr wrote: post #5

Good. This should help bring some sanity and accountability. they were both quite needed

Why? Nobody is forcing crypto currenency on anyone. I get that registered companies might have some other deal with the govenment and with hacker organisations, but a free and open (and non-country-bound) system should really not be 'managed' by some random organisation in a random country.

The SEC exists to prevent fraud. It's about people having a choice between truthful investments. These companies are allowed to operate as they claim they are with relatively little oversight. What the SEC regulates is a company claiming they will use investment to do X and then the company does Y or keeps it for themselves. Which is also known as fraud. Like the DEA (an example of something unjust), Secret Service, and ATF, the SEC is a specialized branch of law enforcement.

What these personal choice fundamentalists forget is that lying is wrong. And when you lie about what you are going to do with someone's money, that's a form of theft, e.g. fraud.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#92

Post by lossolo »

joeyspn wrote: post #2

BOOM! the game just changed... > In light of the facts and circumstances, the agency has decided not to bring charges in this instance, or make findings of violations in the Report, but rather to caution the industry and market participants: the federal securities laws apply to those who offer and sell securities in the United States, regardless whether the issuing entity is a traditional company or a decentralized a…

This changes nothing to most of the ICOs, most of them have information that they do not offer their tokens to US citizens.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#93

Post by SolarNet »

tptacek wrote: post #81
oneplane wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Nobody is forcing crypto currenency on anyone. I get that registered companies might have some other deal with the govenment and with hacker organisations, but a free and open (and non-country-bound) system should really not be 'managed' by some random organisation in a random country.

Is there some way we can just replace these kinds of threads with a link to some canonical thread about why the concept of security laws is fundamentally unjust or unwise? This discussion really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Because not everyone agrees with you?

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#94

Post by s73ver »

Jabanga wrote: post #43
Cshelton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations put in place by the SEC are not to help companies, but to protect U.S. citizens from being scammed all the time. Sure, the wild west is fun, but if you are in an economic ecosystem where a large percentage is comprised of scammers/fraudulent companies, then it will be detrimental to long term success.

>but to protect U.S. citizens from being scammed all the time. US citizens shouldn't be treated like children that need to protected from their own stupidity.

And companies shouldn't feel emboldened to scam left and right.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#95

Post by JumpCrisscross »

smokeyj wrote: post #10
joeyspn wrote: post #2

BOOM! the game just changed... > In light of the facts and circumstances, the agency has decided not to bring charges in this instance, or make findings of violations in the Report, but rather to caution the industry and market participants: the federal securities laws apply to those who offer and sell securities in the United States, regardless whether the issuing entity is a traditional company or a decentralized a…

This literally changes nothing. Regulated companies already knew what the findings would be. Unregulated companies still don't care.

> Unregulated companies still don't care

If a company makes a mistake, the SEC first goes after the company. "Unregulated company" sounds like "no company" [1]. In that case, the SEC goes straight after the individuals involved.

[1] Do you mean unregulated or unregistered? Unregulated means sole proprietorship. Unregistered could be an LLC or corporation that just never filed anything with the SEC.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#96

Post by jnwatson »

Jabanga wrote: post #60
isubkhankulov wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

history has proven this sentiment wrong

This is not a sentiment that can be proven wrong. It's a statement on basic rights. And history shows that attempts to control complex industries with cookie cutter rules imposed from on top create the most dysfunctional industries in the economy, namely finance, pharmaceuticals, and healthcare.

Much like vaccines, meat inspection, and building codes, we've forgotten what it's like without them. We (Great Britain and USA) have been making securities regulations for 400 years.

The important lesson of securities regulation is that it helps the "good" guys more than it hurts the bad guys.

When I buy 100 shares of PZZA, I want to be reasonably confident that Papa Johns is cooking pizza and not the books. That confidence, or trust in the system, reduces friction that helps both buyers and sellers of securities.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#97

Post by tptacek »

SolarNet wrote: post #93
tptacek wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some way we can just replace these kinds of threads with a link to some canonical thread about why the concept of security laws is fundamentally unjust or unwise? This discussion really has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Because not everyone agrees with you?

That's an answer to someone's question, but a non-sequitur answer to mine.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#98

Post by vasilipupkin »

EGreg wrote: post #85
joeyspn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or one that doesn't strictly regulate sale of securities There's a reason why some crypto-companies (and not crypto actually) are based in the Cayman Islands (BitMEX), British Virgin Islands (Bitfinex), etc... Crypto Valley [0] in Switzerland is also gaining momentum. BTW, Fred Wilson wrote an interesting piece about this recently [1]. But the issue here is that if you plan to sell "tokens" to US nationals, you now…

But can't their securities commission also pass such a resolution?

No, the issue is that it doesn't matter where you are based, if you offer securities to US persons, you have to abide by US securities laws. If you offer securities to Germans, you have to abide by German laws.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#99

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #33
hellbanner wrote: post #27

In another thread commenters speculated that ICO hacks were coming from inside jobs.. does this new SEC report change how the government would handle that? Is fraud of securities different from fraud over imaginary coins now?

Fraud is fraud, regardless of whether or not you're stealing securities, magical internet money, or baseball cards.

[deleted]

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#100

Post by SolarNet »

tptacek wrote: post #97
SolarNet wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not everyone agrees with you?

That's an answer to someone's question, but a non-sequitur answer to mine.

> with a link to some canonical thread about why the concept of security laws is fundamentally unjust or unwise

Because not everyone agrees with that position.

Post reply on HN