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SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

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31–40 of 360 posts

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#31

In another thread commenters speculated that ICO hacks were coming from inside jobs.. does this new SEC report change how the government would handle that? Is fraud of securities different from fraud over imaginary coins now?

securities are property and property theft is a crime. even before this ruling, coins were treated as property.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem to be ambiguous. If you read the qualifications in section III: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/investreport/34-81207.pdf , they seem to apply to voucher tokens as well. Especially "A reasonable expectation of profit".

This seems like an important distinction, i.e., between an ownership token and a "voucher token," assuming the latter is a token that gives the holder the right to some service. Curious how a groupon isn't a security if a voucher token is.

A groupon doesn't appreciate when the company succeeds.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#33

In another thread commenters speculated that ICO hacks were coming from inside jobs.. does this new SEC report change how the government would handle that? Is fraud of securities different from fraud over imaginary coins now?

Fraud is fraud, regardless of whether or not you're stealing securities, magical internet money, or baseball cards.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#34
post #10
post #2

BOOM! the game just changed... > In light of the facts and circumstances, the agency has decided not to bring charges in this instance, or make findings of violations in the Report, but rather to caution the industry and market participants: the federal securities laws apply to those who offer and sell securities in the United States, regardless whether the issuing entity is a traditional company or a decentralized a…

This literally changes nothing. Regulated companies already knew what the findings would be. Unregulated companies still don't care.

What is an "unregulated company"? A bunch of geeks in a US basement could get prosecuted. A bunch of geeks in a non-US basement illegally selling unregistered securities to US persons might, too. And, if they did it personally instead of through a limited liability company of some sort, and they are found liable for their investors' losses, that will be a personal liability.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#35
post #11

I'm not terribly happy with the decision, though I can't say I'm surprised. I enjoy the drama of the Wild West that is Ethereum and the rest of the cryptocurrency ecosystem. Minimal regulation encourages innovation, while regulated markets can exist for people who want stability and certain guarantees to prevent fraud (or at least make it difficult). I wonder what would happen if financial regulations became more "op…

The regulations put in place by the SEC are not to help companies, but to protect U.S. citizens from being scammed all the time. Sure, the wild west is fun, but if you are in an economic ecosystem where a large percentage is comprised of scammers/fraudulent companies, then it will be detrimental to long term success.

Which is why most publicly-traded companies would get the SEC seal of approval in my hypothetical scenario--institutional investors (which I think own most of the U.S. stock market) would demand it.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the market was down around that much today already. The SEC article has had little to no effect as of yet. I also don't see it having much effect at all as all of those tokens are traded in secondary markets.

Or everybody who mattered already knew what was going to happen from their insider sources and were trading in advance of the announcement.

I would consider holders of most tokens to be "dumb money"... they did not have an inside source to the SEC release...

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#37
post #5

Good. This should help bring some sanity and accountability. they were both quite needed

Why? Nobody is forcing crypto currenency on anyone. I get that registered companies might have some other deal with the govenment and with hacker organisations, but a free and open (and non-country-bound) system should really not be 'managed' by some random organisation in a random country.

[deleted]

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#38
post #16
post #11

I'm not terribly happy with the decision, though I can't say I'm surprised. I enjoy the drama of the Wild West that is Ethereum and the rest of the cryptocurrency ecosystem. Minimal regulation encourages innovation, while regulated markets can exist for people who want stability and certain guarantees to prevent fraud (or at least make it difficult). I wonder what would happen if financial regulations became more "op…

It might not change the overall ecosystem that much. Many companies doing ICOs are already locating themselves in friendlier jurisdictions, and making some effort to block U.S. contributors.

securities laws apply based on the investor's jurisdiction

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#39
post #5

Good. This should help bring some sanity and accountability. they were both quite needed

Why? Nobody is forcing crypto currenency on anyone. I get that registered companies might have some other deal with the govenment and with hacker organisations, but a free and open (and non-country-bound) system should really not be 'managed' by some random organisation in a random country.

Same reason SEC exists. Because many people are easy to manipulate, and plenty of malicious people out there will convince (not force) them to invest in their ICO, etc.

Re: SEC Issues Report Concluding DAO Tokens, a Digital Asset, Were Securities

#40
post #11

I'm not terribly happy with the decision, though I can't say I'm surprised. I enjoy the drama of the Wild West that is Ethereum and the rest of the cryptocurrency ecosystem. Minimal regulation encourages innovation, while regulated markets can exist for people who want stability and certain guarantees to prevent fraud (or at least make it difficult). I wonder what would happen if financial regulations became more "op…

> I enjoy the drama of the Wild West that is Ethereum and the rest of the cryptocurrency ecosystem. "Drama" is not really a desirable characteristic for most users of a market.

Indeed, and yet the market cap of these cryptocurrencies has grown much faster than that of almost any company you could name over the last few years. (Yes, I know that's an apples-to-oranges comparison, but apparently a lot of people, myself not included, are willing to take the risk.)
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