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The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

nytimes.com

451–460 of 481 posts

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And unless they pay enough no providers will do the procedure unless you somehow force them.

Sure, but if you're the single possible payer, you can push that number down quite low.

Which would require providers to cut as much corners as they possibly can to stay in business.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#452
post #420
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine was in a sports accident almost two years ago. He had a good medical insurance plan for exactly this possibility. He fractures his pelvis into 14 pieces, and broke another dozen major bones including both femurs. The surgeries are still ongoing although he is mostly himself again. But even two years later, he is facing a daily barrage of calls, being put on hold, no callbacks, paper shuffling, record…

> He fractures his pelvis into 14 pieces, and broke another dozen major bones including both femurs. That sounds horrific. What sport was this?

Paragliding. He competes at the top level, and the accident occurred in competition. Think Nascar crash.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#453
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S., the doctors do not have standing to appear in court and order treatment, or non-treatment, for a patient. That is solely up to the family, and if there is no family, the court appoints a guardian. There is no way this situation could have happened in the U.S., where the parents were forbid to pay for own treatment. I think it does concern single-payer. I can only think of the quote, "A government powerfu…

I'm not entirely sure that's true in the US, that people can make medical decisions on behalf of a minor without any legal coverage of whether it's in their best interests, but I'm not familiar enough with US law. However if we look at the facts of this case: http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-char... "One of the factors that influenced this decision was that Charlie’s brain was shown to be exten…

The issue is who gets to decide for the child. In the U.S. it's the parents, not the doctors or the court.

My concern is that if there is a single payer health care system here in the U.S., the patient will lose control of their health care decisions, as it appears the parents of Charlie Gard did.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#454

In a past life, I worked in health insurance fraud detection. Everybody should know, the health insurance system in the US is fundamentally broken and has been almost since its inception in the early 20th century. The lack of adequate consumer protection, transparency, health systems and appropriate government regulation, in addition to organizational oversight, has lead to a situation where we have poor systems that…

Hi sixdimensional, thank you for the insightful comment here. I've been researching this area, and I'd love to chat more with you, would you be open to that? My email is on my profile page, feel free to email me on that address and I'll follow up.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#455
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, the Democrats did not have control of congress to pass whatever they wanted when the ACA was passed. On the other hand, the Democratic party of the US has never fought with any fervor against Republicans on pretty much anything. The closest I have seen in my lifetime to democratic resistance was to the most blatantly and obviously stupid and racist decisions Trump has made like travel bans and appointing…

Even if we just stay on the subject we're talking about here it's easy to rebut this notion that the Democrats don't fight the Republicans. A lot of people forget that the GOP does not, as a political party, believe in universal coverage. Moving the country closer to universal coverage is not a GOP political objective. What is a GOP objective is minimizing federal interference and involvement with business. Health ca…

Is that the Democratic party fighting the GOP, or just the GOP realizing that if they start throwing people off healthcare, especially those that both need it most and represent their most substantial voting block (middle aged, white, poor midwesterners and southerners) no amount of campaign dollars will keep them in office. They would probably never turn blue, but the GOP establishment would primary them out of their own reelections for how unpopular they would be.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, decades of propaganda in Canada has convinced far beyond half our electorate that the Canadian system is the best in the world even though you actually do have to wait several months for treatment if your issue is not "urgent", the definition of urgent being unknown.

I take it you have never experienced a true urgent health crisis? Once you have you'll quickly realise that the 'long wait times' narrative is complete propaganda FUD. Anecdote time: My sister is anaphylactic, when she goes to the ER she is admitted, hooked up, and given epi almost immediately. When my aunt couldn't move her arm one day, she got an MRI, diagnosed brain cancer, and had brain surgery in the same week.…

I have some anecdotes

1. A friend of mine had severe back pains, all what he got from a family doctor was some painkillers and some stories that his back pain due to to weak muscles and he has to exercise more and wait a bit (3-6 months) before he can get some tests done. Anyways he moved to the US and week later made some tests to find that he has cancer in some serious stage. He started treatment but it was too late.

2. Another friend had spend 6 hours in ER with his eyelid cut in half (he got a branch into his eye while hiking).

3. I had some troubles with my daughter in Canada as well, don't want to go into details.

I eventually moved to the US and while healthcare here is outrageously and ridiculously expensive it is still years ahead of Canadian when you have a good insurance.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#457
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying we should consider one year earlier in the analysis?

We should look at bit earlier 2009 at least. That doesn't mean we'll find a larger jump there, I found it for my self, but the KFF study shows there wasn't in general. However discarding date legislation has passed is also dishonest as factcheck did. Companies which are affected by regulations monitor them closely and adjust to them correspondingly.

Even then, the ACA came up pretty quickly after Obama got elected, they had one or two years to back up premiums, and premium increases seem to have remained steady during that time. What the ACA did do is outlaw junk insurance policies that were cheaper but not useful as health insurance.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#458
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not entirely sure that's true in the US, that people can make medical decisions on behalf of a minor without any legal coverage of whether it's in their best interests, but I'm not familiar enough with US law. However if we look at the facts of this case: http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-char... "One of the factors that influenced this decision was that Charlie’s brain was shown to be exten…

The issue is who gets to decide for the child. In the U.S. it's the parents, not the doctors or the court. My concern is that if there is a single payer health care system here in the U.S., the patient will lose control of their health care decisions, as it appears the parents of Charlie Gard did.

No, sometimes it's the court in the US. http://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/2006/10/hlaw1-0610.html - and this has nothing to do with who pays for it.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you have never experienced a true urgent health crisis? Once you have you'll quickly realise that the 'long wait times' narrative is complete propaganda FUD. Anecdote time: My sister is anaphylactic, when she goes to the ER she is admitted, hooked up, and given epi almost immediately. When my aunt couldn't move her arm one day, she got an MRI, diagnosed brain cancer, and had brain surgery in the same week.…

I have some anecdotes 1. A friend of mine had severe back pains, all what he got from a family doctor was some painkillers and some stories that his back pain due to to weak muscles and he has to exercise more and wait a bit (3-6 months) before he can get some tests done. Anyways he moved to the US and week later made some tests to find that he has cancer in some serious stage. He started treatment but it was too lat…

1 and 2 both sound quite familiar in the US system too. Ineffective and dismissive treatment for back pain is a common complaint, and long ER waits for non-life-threatening conditions are normal.

Anecdotes don't really do anything for us besides give us pointless things to argue about. You need to look at statistics like life expectancy, quality of life, average wait times, unnecessary deaths, etc.

The fact that you have to qualify your final statement with "when you have good insurance" is the whole problem. Before the ACA, that was far from a given, and even if you had good insurance it was too easy to lose. If Republicans have their way, we'll be back in that situation again.

I don't get it when people bring up situations like your #2. I'm sure it really, really sucked to wait six hours in the ER with an injury like that, but is it worse than staying home and trying to treat it yourself because you can't afford to visit the ER? Is it worse than dying from a simple condition because you can't afford to see a doctor?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vote for candidates who will support single payer.

Ask Charlie Gard how single payer is working out for him.

Note to bystanders: Trump mentioned Gard on Twitter; he's clearly being invoked in the context of the attempted Obamacare repeal. There is a very large industry invested in convincing people that healthcare that doesn't arbitrarily bankrupt people is a bad idea.

This is why people are talking about Charlie Gard and not, say, Maatthew Stewart http://theweek.com/articles/666799/how-american-health-care-...

(Does anyone track suicide rates linked to medical bankruptcy? That's got to be the ultimate negative outcome.)

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