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Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

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11–20 of 65 posts

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#11
post #9

I know it's off the subject but is there a marketplace for freelancing for altcoins?

There's https://ethlance.com . I don't know how much activity it has, but I do know it will be part of a family of marketplaces called District0x [1], which should help it with adoption. [1] https://blog.district0x.io/introducing-the-district0x-networ...

I was thinking any coin. With all the ICOs there seems like a lot work that needs done and a lot of coins to burn.

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#12
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Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#13

Forgive what might be an obvious question, but though I see there is a concept of trying to determine the risk of a loan, it isn't clear to me how that is actually done. What is used as a source of identity of the borrower? IE, how do you punish bad borrowers on future loans? Or does that fall outside of this?

Credit-risk assessment is indeed the most brittle aspect of what I'm building. In short -- borrowers have to get a cryptographically signed attestation from what's called a Risk Assessment Attestor in order to request a loan in Dharma. RAAs use whatever means they have to assess a borrower's identity and creditworthiness -- be that through social media logins, uploaded identification documents, authenticated phone nu…

> whatever means they have to assess a borrower's identity [...] uploaded identification documents

Whee, racial profiling!

> deterred from defaulting on their loans insofar as their future creditworthiness on the platform will be marred

Oooh, scary :-) You're not even threatening to half-assedly try to involve authorities if someone just runs with the money?

I think this is a very interesting engineering feat, but it does seem to suffer from the basic problem that there is no real connection between the real world and this fantasy world called "the blockchain".

Also, a small comment on the README:

> submitting to the contract any subset of the investors' bids whose total cash amount is equal to the desired principal

If you really mean "equal" here, you are looking at the NP-complete subset sum problem in general. Also, there might just not be solutions at all. Maybe you don't actually mean "equal", it should become more practical if you allowed some deviations from the borrower's initially specified amount.

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#14
post #2

Slightly off topic, but the recent Ethereum hacks have created interest in how to write secure contracts with Solidity. That is, despite some of the built in barriers, like functions defaulting to public, awkward guard code limitations, etc. I would imagine if you have some expertise in that area, it would be of interest here. Might also help put some confidence in your specific use case.

Not off topic in the slightest! In fact, all too topical, given the past few weeks. For what it's worth -- I'm a former engineer at Coinbase / Google and recently graduated from Stanford. Though I didn't touch Solidity as part of my work at Coinbase, I've been following Ethereum extremely closely since its beginnings, and any mainnet release I'd push forward would certainly undergo rigorous third-party auditing at th…

This project is simultaneously a great example of the democratizing effect of Ethereum while also being truly terrifying. A Stanford '17 grad with a few internships worth of industry experience is able to create and deploy a peer-to-peer loan infrastructure. This isn't meant to be demeaning in any way, I'm just remarking on how incredible of an accomplishment it is for both you and Ethereum that the previous sentence isn't fantasy.

Now, I'm someone with ~10yrs experience in finance/production engineering/regulation. That doesn't mean I'm right, just that I've been in the trenches for far longer and seen this type of domain from a number of sides over the course of many years. I need to at least mention that, well, this project is probably a bomb and you should be really careful with it. I, at least, wouldn't want to be the next DAO dev (e.g. project takes off quickly, unseen exploit exists, I lose some 10's of millions of other people's money) at mostly a personal (I'd feel guilty) and career trajectory level.

The Parity multi-sig bug occurred in a solidity shop that was founded by the father of the language itself. It got past a serious audit and had the best eng process known (for solidity) enforced. The odds that your code -- currently unaudited correct? -- doesn't have an exploit are, while impossible to accurately calculate, quite remote. Even an audit, as shown by Parity, is no guarantee. And while yes, we're all human so there is always the chance for a bug, your system could be the next ITO market and thus could gain a huge amount of attention (from both regular folks, regulators, and hackers).

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it (I wouldn't but you do you) or that you must have more exp to do it. I'm just recommending to be careful. Have fun and good luck!

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#15
I know this is off topic, but why the heck is it called Dharma? Just a cool sounding eastern word? It's like calling something 'The Gospel' or 'The New Testament' or the 'Quran Protocol'. I get that it's hip for westerners to yank Buddhist words, but this one really pushes my East Asian buttons. It doesn't even semantically make sense--in fact, it's a total antonym in many ways.

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#16
post #15

I know this is off topic, but why the heck is it called Dharma? Just a cool sounding eastern word? It's like calling something 'The Gospel' or 'The New Testament' or the 'Quran Protocol'. I get that it's hip for westerners to yank Buddhist words, but this one really pushes my East Asian buttons. It doesn't even semantically make sense--in fact, it's a total antonym in many ways.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not off topic in the slightest! In fact, all too topical, given the past few weeks. For what it's worth -- I'm a former engineer at Coinbase / Google and recently graduated from Stanford. Though I didn't touch Solidity as part of my work at Coinbase, I've been following Ethereum extremely closely since its beginnings, and any mainnet release I'd push forward would certainly undergo rigorous third-party auditing at th…

This project is simultaneously a great example of the democratizing effect of Ethereum while also being truly terrifying. A Stanford '17 grad with a few internships worth of industry experience is able to create and deploy a peer-to-peer loan infrastructure. This isn't meant to be demeaning in any way, I'm just remarking on how incredible of an accomplishment it is for both you and Ethereum that the previous sentence…

I think the problems you're alluding to are problems with the blockchain ecosystem in general, and I don't purport to have a silver bullet to solve the inherent issues with immutable software deployments, particularly in financial applications.

But, after all, a dark horse 20 year old college dropout spearheaded the development of Ethereum, and the technology now secures nearly 20B worth of value.

Maybe it's impossible to truly build processes for secure software deployment auditing in this space -- in which case, it's unlikely blockchain tech will succeed as a technology in general -- but I hold an optimistic view that, as formal verification techniques for smart contracts get fleshed out and easier to use, best practices will emerge and it will become easier to build secure contracts on blockchains.

Hopefully, until that point in time, Dharma won't get caught on the wrong side of history.

Forgive my youth and naïveté :)

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#18
post #15

I know this is off topic, but why the heck is it called Dharma? Just a cool sounding eastern word? It's like calling something 'The Gospel' or 'The New Testament' or the 'Quran Protocol'. I get that it's hip for westerners to yank Buddhist words, but this one really pushes my East Asian buttons. It doesn't even semantically make sense--in fact, it's a total antonym in many ways.

> It's like calling something 'The Gospel' or 'The New Testament' or the 'Quran Protocol'.

Yeah, I don't think that is true, at all. Dharma is a concept and you've listed books (or close enough to books).

According to Wikipedia,

> In certain contexts, dharma designates human behaviours considered necessary for order of things in the universe, principles that prevent chaos, behaviours and action necessary to all life in nature, society, family as well as at the individual level.

With this definition, I think the author has given the project a fine name.

Beyond that, I really think you're getting bent out of shape about something very insignificant and don't think this has anything to do with "westerners [yanking] Buddhist words". It's no different than naming something Apache, Vista, Yahoo, or Google. It's just a name.

And just to add, also according to Wikipedia,

> The antonym of dharma is adharma (Sanskrit: अधर्म), meaning that which is “not dharma”. As with dharma, the word adharma includes and implies many ideas; in common parlance, adharma means that which is against nature, immoral, unethical, wrong or unlawful.

So, either you don't know what Dharma or Adharma is yourself or you just don't know what's an antonym.

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not off topic in the slightest! In fact, all too topical, given the past few weeks. For what it's worth -- I'm a former engineer at Coinbase / Google and recently graduated from Stanford. Though I didn't touch Solidity as part of my work at Coinbase, I've been following Ethereum extremely closely since its beginnings, and any mainnet release I'd push forward would certainly undergo rigorous third-party auditing at th…

have you attempted to apply any formal methods (coq, isabelle, tla, whatever) to your code? or will you be content with mere auditing?

Not as of yet, but I'd definitely be interested in exploring the possibility. If you know of any good resources or primers on those, please do send them my way.

Re: Show HN: Dharma – Programmable Peer-To-Peer Loans Using Ethereum Smart Contracts

#20

Forgive what might be an obvious question, but though I see there is a concept of trying to determine the risk of a loan, it isn't clear to me how that is actually done. What is used as a source of identity of the borrower? IE, how do you punish bad borrowers on future loans? Or does that fall outside of this?

I think the idea is that RAAs can bridge the reality divide by tying the pseudo-anonymous contract identity to a real life identity. You can, for example, require the user upload a video showing them, any government IDs, their house number, their last utility bills, pay stubs, etc. You might require a mobile app that could look at ongoing phone telemetry/contact info to see someone has a network and is regularly going to a job. The goal isn't mathematical certainty, just to make the effort/cost of theft Some startups do similar things to this (Tala) to lend in countries without credit bureaus and IIRC they can achieve loan repayment rates >= 'prime' US borrowers.
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