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110 N.F.L. Brains

nytimes.com

81–90 of 206 posts

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#81

This study was made possible because of autopsies. If autopsies were standard practice in the US this would have been discovered years, if not decades ago.

Even if autopsies were standard practice for all Americans you wouldn't see docs running tau-staining tests on every cadaver they received.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#83
post #40
post #37

Playing football is almost certainly bad for your brain, but this article does a terrible job of making that case. The doctor in charge of the study says as much: > The set of players posthumously tested by Dr. McKee is far from a random sample of N.F.L. retirees. “There’s a tremendous selection bias,” she has cautioned, noting that many families have donated brains specifically because the former player showed sympt…

9% chance, the best possible case given the current data, of a horrible, slow, lingering death 20 years later is still unacceptable . What's the rate for getting mesothelioma after working with asbestos?

I can't put together a simple number based on the papers I'm finding, especially if we're limited to mesothelioma. Cancer risks are reported in units of f/mL.yr (fibers per milliliter of air per year) or f/g (embedded fibers per gram of dry lung tissue). And there's a huge range to occupational exposure, which I'm not capable of relating back to the risk numbers. (I don't have the numerical skills.)

But suffice it to say that, surprisingly, AFAICT for even exceptionally heavy occupational exposure (e.g. mining asbestos or removing asbestos insulation) lifetime risks of developing mesothelioma seem to be well below 10%, and possibly even below 1%.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#84
The bodies were all donated with the vast majority of them having symptoms of CTE while they were alive.

Essentially, it's not even close to a representative sample of former NFL players.

It would be the same as people who had knee problems, then were found to have arthritis in their knees after an autopsy.

I would be very careful to say that all (or almost all) NFL players will have CTE when they finish football.

I have seen more research on people's brains where they categorize them in two types, ones that recover from brain trauma and others that don't. For me, that seems more likely.

If you are an NFL player with the type of brain that recovers well, you probably will be fine later in life. If you have a brain that just doesn't seem to do well with that, then you could develop CTE. That would be my guess.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NFL isn't a 10 years old league, there's plenty of players who passed away. If anything there would be more examples since equipment was worse before and there were less rules that protected players, especially top/crown helmet leading tackles which started getting penalized with 15yd only in 2013.

I think the prevalence of concussions in football compared to rugby is proof that "better equipment" doesn't prevent concussions. It has the paradoxical effect of causing them. Better shoulder pads allow for people to launch their bodies without fear of separating their shoulders. Conversely, helmets are not designed to protect the brain, only to prevent skull fractures. Thus, I don't think your argument holds water.

I would be careful here. The prevalence of CTE in former rugby players is unknown but there have been documented cases. This is all pretty new ground and we may be surprised to find that rugby poses similarly unconscionable risks.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#86
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Heading soccer balls is proven to at least temporarily reduce IQ. I've never let my kids play that sport. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/1... http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/health/soccer-headers-concussi...

So what are the safer competitive team sports for kids to participate in?

Baseball is definitely up there; catching and pitching can be a lot of strain on knees/shoulders but for the most part it's safe long term.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#87
Historians will look back at American Football as our analog to the Roman's gladiatorial games. A lot of people don't realize that during the Imperial era of Rome fights to the death had become uncommon.[0] The games were watched in an arena and primarily sold hard-hitting violence between members of the lower castes of society and sometimes people got killed or horribly maimed....sound familiar? I stopped watching American football last year once I could no longer consciously watch men destroy themselves for money and the amusement of a country that largely despises/fears them in any other setting.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator#Victory_and_defeat

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#88
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Heading soccer balls is proven to at least temporarily reduce IQ. I've never let my kids play that sport. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/1... http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/health/soccer-headers-concussi...

So what are the safer competitive team sports for kids to participate in?

Really? There's a bunch of non-contact or limited-contact sports.

Crew, tennis, baseball, swimming, golf, all of track and field, etc.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#89

I'm more interested in what happens to the brain with youth soccer. Bigger problem than a couple hundred pro athletes.

I agree. Heading soccer balls is proven to at least temporarily reduce IQ. I've never let my kids play that sport. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/1... http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/health/soccer-headers-concussi...

Bit extreme of a reaction to two severely flawed click-bait studies and relevant to that "fear as a product" article from yesterday.

Washington Post: 14 men participating in the study. Each was asked to perform a rotational header — redirecting the soccer ball — 20 consecutive times during 10-minute sessions.

tiny sample size + 20 consecutive headers in 10 minutes is astronomically rare occurrence in soccer, 3 headers in 10 minutes is incredibly rare. Even with this methodology they report *the alterations appeared to clear within 24 hours.

CNN: "Concussions in soccer mostly occur from player-to-player and player-to-ground contact. Heading is involved in only 15% to 25% of concussions in soccer, and most of those are a result of poorly executed headers where two players hit heads,"

So most concussions are from bumping heads, which is a possibility in any contact sport.

Re: 110 N.F.L. Brains

#90
The JAMA data tables [1] also covered military service, with a high incidence of CTE there (5 mild, 45 severe). Both of the kicker/punters in the study also had mild CTE (did they kick with their heads?). Really leads to wonder about the prevalence in the general population, for sport and laborers at large, in addition to football players. The average years of play was 15.1, which is a really long time to play the sport.

The authors are playing to a theme here, rather than objectively reporting results.

[1] http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2645104

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