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How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

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Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#61

Post by anigbrowl »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #46

>Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda "The good old days", except that never existed. Journalism has always been the tool for the powerful to paint a positive picture of themselves to the general public via "unbiased agents" called journalists who are "free to write anything" as long as it serves their masters. Now that almost anyone can publish their opinion and share it with everyone, the ones who have…

This ignores the fact that many journalistic endeavors have been borne out by historical factors, although perhaps in your model of the world all journalists and social change occur only at the will of powerful forces which manipulate things from behind the scene. But not you, of course.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#62

Post by ErikVandeWater »

travisl12 wrote: post #57

I've been feeling that most "news" outlets these days (for a while?) seem like propaganda. But I think I realize now that this propaganda feeling is just a side-effect from trying to sell shit.

I think it's both. If you're interested, I suggest starting by watching the documentary Spin: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/spin/

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#64

Post by egwynn »

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #46

>Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda "The good old days", except that never existed. Journalism has always been the tool for the powerful to paint a positive picture of themselves to the general public via "unbiased agents" called journalists who are "free to write anything" as long as it serves their masters. Now that almost anyone can publish their opinion and share it with everyone, the ones who have…

Just because we’ve removed a perverse incentive from the past (the oversight of the wealthy) doesn’t mean we haven’t replaced it with an even worse incentive (engagement-first monetization).

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#66

Post by kazinator »

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful, it's that they're unconscious. They are default settings. They're the kin…

"being seen as smart" refers to the external image of intellect, not to intellect itself. Wanting to be seen as smart, and valuing the cultivation of intellect, are not the same.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#67

Post by [deleted] »

sqeaky wrote: post #47
aub3bhat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh DFW is the last person you ought to listen to for advice. [1] It's just demotivational-speak paraded around as if it were some profound wisdom, just to assuage ego of your average reader with Liberal arts degree. So that she/he can fool herself by believing that they are better than others because they "truly care"... “truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them” is just meaningless babbling that y…

That seemed pretty motivational to me. The message I got was to try as hard as possible not to just "go with the flow" and choose what I can in life.

[deleted]

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#68

Post by matt4077 »

laretluval wrote: post #10

The narrative that information distribution was more accurate in the past because of "traditional journalism" has always struck me as self-serving. > Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda — has become the biggest casualty in this algorithmic war for our attention. Is the best solution really to fight propaganda by leaving our information distribution to a selected elite that we have to trust to follow som…

> Is there a trustless way to implement journalistic standards such as sourcing?

No, there isn't. But people really misunderstand how journalists deal with sources. Here's a recent compilation of behind-the-scenes stories from journalists, that also happens to better communicate the actual work they do than I've seen before: https://www.cjr.org/business_of_news/scoops-fahrenthold-greg...

In short, an "anonymous source" isn't just a reporter making something up. On the rare occasion that something like that happened, it became a major story in itself.

It's also rare for these sources to lie. These sources are real people, after all. And a lie would burn their relationship with the journalist and medium, and possibly beyond. For a politician, that could be a career-ending move.

Just to illustrate: we're reading new insider stories from the white house almost every day now. I can point to any number of anonymously-sourced stories that were later proven right by official announcements. There may be some that can't (yet) be judged, such as the persistence rumours that X or Y may resign. But the only story that was provably wrong was the Scaramucci-Malta story by CNN.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#69

Post by rosser »

aub3bhat wrote: post #56
matt4077 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Wallace' intentions are only commercial, i. e. "to sell empty wisdom[..]". That's mostly because he's been dead for 10 years. Also, if you're trying to sell empty philosophy to "average, depressed liberal-arts majors who lack power and knowledge", it strikes me as a particularly bad idea to start with a 1,076-page tome? I mean–he could've at least made it a 12-part series, right? Yo…

>> You're also short-changing those liberal arts majors. After all, many of them go on to law school, with the result that Congress is about 2/3 liberal arts majors. Congress the beacon of efficiency, progress and wisdom.

I majored in philosophy, not CS.

Some of the best technologists I've ever worked with were film majors, history majors, philosophy majors, sociology majors, &c.

By far, the most important skill for this kind of work is critical thinking.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#70

Post by hkmurakami »

mcappleton wrote: post #63

I'm very glad I found Hacker news. Sometimes I read the news just cause I'm bored. Now I can just read hacker news which helps me be a better coder instead of draining me of emotional energy

HN is hardly devoid of fear and anger and biases and prejudice and self interest. In fact it's pretty much filled with it -- but not quite overflowing with it like many other popular textual outlets.

And with all due respect, this thread isn't helping you become a better coder. If anything it's stoking our emotional needs, just in a different manner than say CNN.

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