How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit • Hacker News Board

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#31

Post by xiaoma » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #14

maxxxxx wrote: post #3

I don't understand why so many people are addicted to outrage, anger and fear. For a while I played along but then I quickly realized that all this stuff is manufactured to manipulate people. Now I can't even stand watching CNN or watching a campaign ad.

1) It's very much easier to be negative than to be positive. 2) Negativity is more contagious.

This has its roots in our evolutionary history. Missing something positive might have meant missing dinner. Missing something negative might have meant being dinner.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#32

Post by felipeccastro » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

Great article! And oh, the irony of having a very engaging title... It seems it all boils down to incentives: if the only available way of making money is ads, news agencies will optimize for that. I wonder if new techs like blockchain/ethereum may provide alternative ways of making money with different kinds of incentives (i.e. not optimized for more clicks, but for something else).

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#33

Post by egwynn » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #27

And articles like that miss (or just ignore) that there are reasons to be worried, as small as they might be A person having Ebola seems to me like a significant fact even though it doesn't represent any danger These articles want to play a holier-than-though nihilist/"we know better" image but just come across as idiotic. Overreacting is stupid, but underreacting is naive.

The article isn't arguing for underreaction. It argues that overreaction is worse now than it was before because the new platforms for publishing have dispensed with a number of editorial checks that would have tempered the sensationalism. Its main aim is that overreaction is more expensive than many realize.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#34

Post by convolvatron » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #27

And articles like that miss (or just ignore) that there are reasons to be worried, as small as they might be A person having Ebola seems to me like a significant fact even though it doesn't represent any danger These articles want to play a holier-than-though nihilist/"we know better" image but just come across as idiotic. Overreacting is stupid, but underreacting is naive.

the issue of what one should report on, and what it might mean to be unbiased is broader than the one at hand. all discourse, whether well founded or not, is being shaped my a machine whose entire function is to optimize ad revenue.

which is kind of sad, but the part that seems to be really egregious is that by co-opting communication, its not just feeding on us, its shaping us.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#35

Post by _wp3r » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

I would be happy with just opinion free and divisive speech free headlines. If the big outlets could simply start with that, it might be attainable. Words matter.

In the meantime. https://legiblenews.com/

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#36

Post by egwynn » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:02 PM UTC

laretluval wrote: post #10

The narrative that information distribution was more accurate in the past because of "traditional journalism" has always struck me as self-serving. > Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda — has become the biggest casualty in this algorithmic war for our attention. Is the best solution really to fight propaganda by leaving our information distribution to a selected elite that we have to trust to follow som…

I’m not sure if I have a great “all around” solution to propose, but I do like the idea of trying to remove the incentives to sensationlize anything/everything.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#37

Post by gmarx » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

I noticed his violent crime graph stopped around 2013. Convenient. Yes violent crime is down by the standards of the previous 50 years but I'm pretty sure it has been inching back up over the previous two, at least in cities. Nothing to panic about yet but also nothing to be dismissive about.

Also, though I too long for the old days of journalistic standards, let us a remember one of the side effects what creating the assumption that there is one correct mainstream view of reality and that anything that deviates too much from it is extremism (or today "fake news").

There is almost no such thing as a bias free reporting of facts and events in the news. Many of the things which were in the past dismissed as the views of cranks are now accepted as normal. Surely some of the views expressed in the darker corners of the internet today will someday be considered mainstream and many of the views expressed by the mainstream real news will some day be considered nuts.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#38

Post by gpawl » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

laretluval wrote: post #10

The narrative that information distribution was more accurate in the past because of "traditional journalism" has always struck me as self-serving. > Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda — has become the biggest casualty in this algorithmic war for our attention. Is the best solution really to fight propaganda by leaving our information distribution to a selected elite that we have to trust to follow som…

No. Everything comes down to trust and reputation. The NYT has over a century of reputation. When something like that is broken, it can't be quickly replaced.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#39

Post by eridius » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:06 PM UTC

gmarx wrote: post #37

I noticed his violent crime graph stopped around 2013. Convenient. Yes violent crime is down by the standards of the previous 50 years but I'm pretty sure it has been inching back up over the previous two, at least in cities. Nothing to panic about yet but also nothing to be dismissive about. Also, though I too long for the old days of journalistic standards, let us a remember one of the side effects what creating th…

The source for that graph is Pew, and if you look at the linked source, it looks like violent crime did in fact keep going down (at least until 2015, Pew's graph doesn't go past that) - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/16/voters-perce...

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#40

Post by blizkreeg » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC

This is what we've sold for millennia. Right from Roman-era gladiatorial fights (for pure entertainment) to CNN, Fox, or Breitbart disguising entertainment as news, telling you the world is coming to an end.

While we can and should certainly aspire to a different way, plainly presented news and information has few(er) takers in comparison to shock and awe. Humans love drama.