How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit • Hacker News Board

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#11

Post by laretluval » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:05 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful, it's that they're unconscious. They are default settings. They're the kin…

> The really important kind of freedom involves attention and awareness and discipline, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them over and over in myriad petty, unsexy ways every day.

What is the argument for why this is better than the alternatives? Self-sacrifice can also be a worship.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#12

Post by gpvos » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful, it's that they're unconscious. They are default settings. They're the kin…

DFW = David Foster Wallace, writer

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#13

Post by smacktoward » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

laretluval wrote: post #10

The narrative that information distribution was more accurate in the past because of "traditional journalism" has always struck me as self-serving. > Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda — has become the biggest casualty in this algorithmic war for our attention. Is the best solution really to fight propaganda by leaving our information distribution to a selected elite that we have to trust to follow som…

> Is the best solution really to fight propaganda by leaving our information distribution to a selected elite that we have to trust to follow some standards?

Compared to leaving our information distribution to anybody who's out to make a quick buck?

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#14

Post by JustSomeNobody » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #3

I don't understand why so many people are addicted to outrage, anger and fear. For a while I played along but then I quickly realized that all this stuff is manufactured to manipulate people. Now I can't even stand watching CNN or watching a campaign ad.

1) It's very much easier to be negative than to be positive.

2) Negativity is more contagious.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#15

Post by QAPereo » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #3

I don't understand why so many people are addicted to outrage, anger and fear. For a while I played along but then I quickly realized that all this stuff is manufactured to manipulate people. Now I can't even stand watching CNN or watching a campaign ad.

I feel the same way, but it took time to get there. At first, it was more exciting to be plugged in... then you start to notice the patterns, and the lack of anything substantive. For some of us, that leads to disengagement, but maybe that's because we already prefer to focus on other issues?

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#16

Post by aub3bhat » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:25 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful, it's that they're unconscious. They are default settings. They're the kin…

Meh DFW is the last person you ought to listen to for advice. [1] It's just demotivational-speak paraded around as if it were some profound wisdom, just to assuage ego of your average reader with Liberal arts degree. So that she/he can fool herself by believing that they are better than others because they "truly care"...

“truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them” is just meaningless babbling that you would expect from a writer who needs to sell empty wisdom to demotivated readers. In reality Power and Knowledge are essential if one aims to enable true change.

[1] http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/rewriting-of-david-foster-wal...

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#17

Post by sevensor » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

erikb wrote: post #7

Is it a coincidence that just yesterday we discussed a similar topic with fear being a product sold to us? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14843080 (This is to increase the discussion spectrum, not to shut down the one started here)

I encourage everyone to read the Lapham essay. The medium article under discussion here presents details, Lapham's essay talks about the historical forces driving the culture of fear. The problem I have with this meta discussion is that it also inclines to make one fearful. At least in this instance we're talking fearfully about fear itself.

For my part, I've begun to recognize that any news that provokes me to outrage was designed specifically for that end. This at least converts anger and despair at the state of the world to annoyance at the media outlet that would stoop to courting outrage. It leaves me with precious little news to read.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#18

Post by introspectr3 » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

laretluval wrote: post #11

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need ever more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they're evil or sinful, it's that they're unconscious. They are default settings. They're the kin…

> The really important kind of freedom involves attention and awareness and discipline, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them over and over in myriad petty, unsexy ways every day. What is the argument for why this is better than the alternatives? Self-sacrifice can also be a worship.

He is positing here that the alternative is being enslaved to the systems of the mind.

He is not arguing that you be a doormat. He is arguing that you be attentive and aware of your own mind's biases.

The supposition being that when you are free from these controls, you will be able to see others as more than just means to ends.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#19

Post by ISL » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

laretluval wrote: post #10

The narrative that information distribution was more accurate in the past because of "traditional journalism" has always struck me as self-serving. > Journalism — the historical counter to propaganda — has become the biggest casualty in this algorithmic war for our attention. Is the best solution really to fight propaganda by leaving our information distribution to a selected elite that we have to trust to follow som…

> Is there a trustless way to implement journalistic standards such as sourcing?

Encouraging others to think critically, to seek their own confirmation of information, both surprising and expected. Leading by example is powerful.

Re: How Fear and Outrage Are Sold for Profit

#20

Post by maxxxxx » Tue, Jul 25, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

api wrote: post #5

maxxxxx wrote: post #3

I don't understand why so many people are addicted to outrage, anger and fear. For a while I played along but then I quickly realized that all this stuff is manufactured to manipulate people. Now I can't even stand watching CNN or watching a campaign ad.

I suspect fear and outrage releases some natural addictive brain chemicals. The fear and outrage porn industry certainly resembles an addictive substance scene.

At some point you should start getting bored with it. Same with porn. For a while it's interesting but then it just gets boring. Obviously I have no first hand experience watching pron. I only repeat what I hear from others :-)