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Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

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241–250 of 346 posts

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are unreasonable, you're most likely on the right. Most reasonable people are clustered with the left. I hope you realize there's nothing reasonable about this statement. IMO, most times when the right has been considered to be unreasonable, so to speak, it has been a response to the left taking things too far. And yes, this includes WWII; there is no Hitler without communism. This is not to validate nor jus…

Bringing this back to the topic at hand, it doesn't really matter if the left is going "too far", but rather whether the consumers of right-wing media think they are going too far based on the lies they are being fed. And at that point they'll "correct" with a new holocaust or civil war or whatever the very, very rich people who have the most to lose will support to protect their wealth.

> at that point they'll "correct" with a new holocaust

Seriously ?

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing this back to the topic at hand, it doesn't really matter if the left is going "too far", but rather whether the consumers of right-wing media think they are going too far based on the lies they are being fed. And at that point they'll "correct" with a new holocaust or civil war or whatever the very, very rich people who have the most to lose will support to protect their wealth.

> at that point they'll "correct" with a new holocaust Seriously ?

It's the pendulum I spoke of earlier at play.

Love your HN bio BTW. Too funny.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#243
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm no joke starting to see the value of Chinese, Singaporean, etc. and maybe even North Korean (!!) censorship - people can't be fucking idiots and destroy the country over stuff on the news if it's not on the news. Sounds like you assume that state based censorship will remove/limit fear from the news. States are the main beneficiary from a fear-based population. It's a tool to direct anger away from relevant are…

[deleted]

> All I can do is look at Singapore from the outside and be in awe (look at their neigbhours.. then look at Poland's or USA's neighbours and compare the amount of fear).

I look at Singapore on the Press Freedom Index (rank 155 out of 180) and am not in awe at all. It scares me that people who grew up in liberal democracies find something to admire about its model.

Perhaps it's just that our life experiences are different.

I grew up in the shadow of the Iron Curtain. My mother's family fled East Germany shortly after WW2. My father's home was within a couple of miles of the inner German border. I got to visit East Berlin before the Wall came down. My memories of explicitly government-regulated speech are negative, through and through.

All I can say is that I never want a government to have that much control over speech. The hypothetical use of that power for good does not offset the damage it can cause in the wrong hands, and in an authoritarian country, there is no way to peacefully remove the government from power if it chooses to abuse that power.

> Freedom of speech has really come to mean outright lies, slander, fear mongering, FUD, bullshit, conspiracies and so on. What value does speech have if the only defense is "it's not illegal" and not "it's right".

There are a number of fallacies here.

* One is the assumption that in order to restrict harmful speech, it has to be ordered from above. (Seriously, Hobbes's idea that you need an authoritarian ruler to protect liberties is a bit dated.)

* Another is that having an authoritarian government would fix this. The worst offenders when it comes to speech aimed at undermining liberties are people already in power. An authoritarian government would exacerbate that issue. Whatever side "won" would also get the power to suppress any speech they don't like.

* We don't protect potentially harmful speech because we like it, but because of the dangers if we open up speech to government censorship. While one can argue that maybe Brandenburg v. Ohio went a bit too far, the underlying idea – to keep the government at a safe distance from regulating individual expression, even expression that you strongly dislike – is sound ("freedom is always the freedom of dissenters"). If there's a role for government, it would be to ensure that valid opinions aren't squeezed out (Fairness Doctrine and such), not to ban harmful speech.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing this back to the topic at hand, it doesn't really matter if the left is going "too far", but rather whether the consumers of right-wing media think they are going too far based on the lies they are being fed. And at that point they'll "correct" with a new holocaust or civil war or whatever the very, very rich people who have the most to lose will support to protect their wealth.

> at that point they'll "correct" with a new holocaust Seriously ?

Your question is a bit cryptic. But yes, I believe tragedies on the scale of the the holocaust and the american civil war are a regular occurrence in human history and we've not seen the last of them yet. I think conservative estimates of climate change related deaths are already in that ballpark.

The death toll for the Iraq war was about a million dead for example, and likely only happened due to the influences described in the article, taking advantage of 9/11 (e.g. the surveys showing that Fox News viewers were more likely to believe Iraq perpetrated 9/11 than people who watched no news at all).

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a matter of vintage point. It's all about intention. You can work to be more reasonable if you choose to. You can teach people to be more reasonable. Its a skill, a quality that everyone healthy can choose to practice or not. I don't even know what right or left leaning imply. That whole categorization is a joke. Tell me what you want, why you want it and how you believe will work best to get it. O…

> That whole categorization is a joke It's a very serious distinction. One which wars have been fought over many times over (from the french revolution to the cold war). To trivialize it is more than naive. > Tell me what you want, why you want it and how you believe will work best to get it There are many things I personally want but underlying it all is the idea of non-egalitarianism. I want structure in any societ…

The American right and the French revolution right are competly different things, which is another good reason for me to believe the categorization is a joke. They've lost meaning, and serve only to avoid talking details, they naturally lead to partisanship.

From what you said, we could have a reasonable conversation, but you sound more libertarian then the current American right. Here lies the issue of affiliation. You sound reasonable, but if you affiliate yourself with breitbart, fox news, and the rest of the leading right, you're associating yourself with a lot of unreasonable people in position of power. And since you've mentioned soviet communism and german fascism before, you might know that's exactly how reasonable people got tricked in the past also.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#246
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm no joke starting to see the value of Chinese, Singaporean, etc. and maybe even North Korean (!!) censorship - people can't be fucking idiots and destroy the country over stuff on the news if it's not on the news. Sounds like you assume that state based censorship will remove/limit fear from the news. States are the main beneficiary from a fear-based population. It's a tool to direct anger away from relevant are…

[deleted]

>It's actually these anti-government, anti-establishment people usually spreading completely irrational fear.

Those groups don't have access to the mainstream channels and platforms to spread their influence like the establishment does. More often than not, that same establishment will paint those groups as the perpetrators of everything that is wrong.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#247
post #37

I'm slowly trimming away the means I acquire news, because it's all becoming so editorialized. Twitter is bombarded with bots and flamewars, reddit is a lost cause, and news.google.com is mainly driven by larger syndications that have mastered the "Big Headlines Sell" strategy. That leaves HN and my little local papers, Mountain View Voice and its ilk. Great for local stories and tech news, but I feel like I'm missin…

[deleted]

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#248
post #37

I'm slowly trimming away the means I acquire news, because it's all becoming so editorialized. Twitter is bombarded with bots and flamewars, reddit is a lost cause, and news.google.com is mainly driven by larger syndications that have mastered the "Big Headlines Sell" strategy. That leaves HN and my little local papers, Mountain View Voice and its ilk. Great for local stories and tech news, but I feel like I'm missin…

I hope dang does not feel more pressure as HN becomes an ever-more precious forum on the whole internet.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#249
post #37

I'm slowly trimming away the means I acquire news, because it's all becoming so editorialized. Twitter is bombarded with bots and flamewars, reddit is a lost cause, and news.google.com is mainly driven by larger syndications that have mastered the "Big Headlines Sell" strategy. That leaves HN and my little local papers, Mountain View Voice and its ilk. Great for local stories and tech news, but I feel like I'm missin…

"Are there any good general global news sources that don't try to manipulate my emotions as I read them? Paid or free"

I enjoy the Economist. There is some delay as it's a weekly publication but to me that's only a bonus. I'm not an investor or a public policy figure. I can wait for a few days for my news if it means it's higher quality.

That said, Economist has a pretty strong political voice - but they don't try to hide it in any way. Generally they voice their opinion in clear tones, get their facts correct, and publish dissenting views to their own in the 'Letters to the editor' section.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but please do not come away with the impression that all right-leaning people are unreasonable Nor that even MOST right leaning people are unreasonable. It's all a matter of vantage point. Edit: grammar

I don't think it's a matter of vintage point. It's all about intention. You can work to be more reasonable if you choose to. You can teach people to be more reasonable. Its a skill, a quality that everyone healthy can choose to practice or not. I don't even know what right or left leaning imply. That whole categorization is a joke. Tell me what you want, why you want it and how you believe will work best to get it. O…

> It's all about intention. You can work to be more reasonable if you choose to. You can teach people to be more reasonable. Its a skill, a quality that everyone healthy can choose to practice or not.

This applies to people on the left and the right. Choosing not to compromise on anything is as aspect of someone's personality which is independent of their political beliefs. You cannot unequivocally state that this mentality only applies to people on the right.

> I don't even know what right or left leaning imply. That whole categorization is a joke.

It's mostly because America has a two party system that you get a massive amount of political spectrum concentrated under the categories of "Democrat" and "Republican"

Go abroad and look at how many parties other countries have in politics:

Canada: Liberal, Conservative, NDP, Green, Bloc Québécois

UK: Conservative, Labour, LibDem, SNP, DUP, Green

France: En Marche!, National Front, Republicans, La France Insoumise, Socialist Party, ...

Germany: CDU/CSU, SPD, Die Linke, Green, FDP, AfD

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