Live data from Hacker News

Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

laphamsquarterly.org

131–140 of 346 posts

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The story of the world is largely a military history. For brutal facts, figures and movements and minimum pathos: http://strategypage.com - Dan Carlin's Common Sense podcast is a relatively unbiased source for US politics.

I believe I tried dan Carlin but was turned off when he made the argument that a third party vote is a wasted vote.

You probably caught him at a bad time. He's also argued that third parties are the only way forward in America (which I think is not true). At this point, his Common Sense podcast is somewhat repetitive of his previous stuff, but he's trying to say new things each time, which is tough.

His Hardcore History stuff, on the other hand, is mind-blowingly awesome!!! And not repetitive.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#132
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Known by who based on what criteria?

Just Google it... Awhile back there was a decent amount of debate about the organization as they are partly funded by tax dollars. Many agree they are left leaning. http://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-biased-is-your-media/ http://archives.cjr.org/news_meeting/does_npr_have_a_liberal... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/business/media/14carr.html...

Many others agree that they aren't left leaning. Who is correct?

And telling us to just Google it is a ridiculous non answer. Don't waste our time.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If NPR is so objective, why were (are) NPR listeners so shocked that people would actually vote for Trump? I say this as someone who was also confused about this for the longest time. NPR certainly didn't help me figure things out at all.

Because NPR's audience tends to lean strongly left, and the left in general couldn't understand why anyone would vote for this obvious shyster. I don't see that NPR is at all relevant to it. Having a different source of information won't suddenly make people able to comprehend an utterly different way of thinking. I'm sure I could consume nothing but Fox News and other right-wing media and I'd still be unable to comp…

I tend to think one way. To help me understand the "other way," I try to understand their belief system before I try to understand their arguments. Let me try to use two examples, one from each side. Don't worry about why some people believe in welfare before you try to understand their beliefs in "justice." Don't try to understand gun rights before understanding "liberty."

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#134
post #37

I'm slowly trimming away the means I acquire news, because it's all becoming so editorialized. Twitter is bombarded with bots and flamewars, reddit is a lost cause, and news.google.com is mainly driven by larger syndications that have mastered the "Big Headlines Sell" strategy. That leaves HN and my little local papers, Mountain View Voice and its ilk. Great for local stories and tech news, but I feel like I'm missin…

Mix of Local news + RT(Russia Today) or Al Jazeera works pretty good

My heart was broken when I was shown that RT supported Bernie. You can find out what Russian Active Measures are pushing by what RT is pushing.

RT can be independent, but you have to know when they're pushing something, and when they're not. I don't have enough time for that.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#135
post #37

I'm slowly trimming away the means I acquire news, because it's all becoming so editorialized. Twitter is bombarded with bots and flamewars, reddit is a lost cause, and news.google.com is mainly driven by larger syndications that have mastered the "Big Headlines Sell" strategy. That leaves HN and my little local papers, Mountain View Voice and its ilk. Great for local stories and tech news, but I feel like I'm missin…

In my opinion, being a person who tries very, very hard to read both sides of everything to form my own intellectual model (it's a bug, not a feature), NO. One does not exist. YET.

Editorial independence in the current US environment is simply not possible using traditional models. Disruption has been taking place, but it's not all constructive. Bezos buying the Washington Post was one marker, and Thiel helping destroy garbage Gawker is at the other end of the spectrum. Hanging in the balance are tens of millions of people trying to find the truth.

Honestly, the only website I can mention in confidence is Medium, and it still suffers from signal-to-noise ratio and present models of information / emotion distribution.

This can be changed, but it will take somebody planting a flag so far out on the scale of TRUTH like Hunter S. Thompson railing against Richard Nixon and in spite of his own significant issues. The dialogue has changed, the methods have changed, and they have surpassed our adaptation capability timing in my opinion.

There is an opportunity for Journalists and Writers in the United States to re-ignite the fire that the First Amendment was designed to protect. It's the natural order of things, we're witnessing evolution, and also participating in it. I have hope that one day a team can come together to build on what ProPublica and The Intercept aimed to achieve, but do it in a fashion like Kurt Cobain when Nirvana's songs and messages suddenly turned people's attention from junk-food-Hair-Metal toward something worth giving thought.

I'm optimistic.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#136
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this perspective. When CNN gets a story wrong, the right creates a huge storm and people get fired. When the right gets a story wrong (Breitbart still pushing the hard anti-climate change line, Hannity with the Seth Rich conspiracy, the entire birther movement, Pizzagate, and on and on and on )... nothing happens. Nothing. It took Milo saying "maybe pedophelia isn't that bad" before there was enoug…

But they are! At least that's how it is perceived by the other side, and that's how you understand that perspective. For a large number of people, truth is in the eye of the beholder. If a story confirms your preconceived biases, the journalist got it right and is telling the truth. If it opposes your beliefs, it's factually wrong. Truth is like relativity: There is no aether, no privileged reference frame. When one…

Maybe it's because defining what the "truth" is is complicated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#137
post #37

I'm slowly trimming away the means I acquire news, because it's all becoming so editorialized. Twitter is bombarded with bots and flamewars, reddit is a lost cause, and news.google.com is mainly driven by larger syndications that have mastered the "Big Headlines Sell" strategy. That leaves HN and my little local papers, Mountain View Voice and its ilk. Great for local stories and tech news, but I feel like I'm missin…

> it's screamed at me, dripping in panic: "Trump DID A THING!!!" "Cops Shoot a Guy AGAIN WHY DID THEY DO THAT?!!"

No joke.

Someone a while back asked here, where are all the leftist conspiracy theories?

We know the right wing ones - the contrails, lizard people, Obama is a secret Muslim etc. How come the left doesn't have any? And my idea was that in a bubble environment where all the news is filtered through narrow ideological framework, the party that lost the election, is forced to come up with conspiracy theories to explain their loss. So they all watched Fox News, read Alex Jones or whatever news channel and well America is pure and good, they are the good guys but those evil Lizards from Outer Space came messed everything up at the last minute.

Then I predicted then that we will have just as vibrant and colorful leftist conspiracy theories after the election, and we kinda do.

The Russians in the bushes hacking elections, is one such thing. This is a massive PR campaign, it was very well done at first. And it makes the Tea Party look like a joke. It's got people in Congress on it. Journalists talking about it night and day. Though lately I think it's finally running out of steam.

Or the other was the "dossier" - Trump hired hookers to pee on the bed where Obama slept. And of course it's called a "dossier" because that makes it look official and important.

Impeaching Trump. If you happen to read /r/politics, which I do sometimes, you'd get the impression that in just a few days Trump will finally be impeached. I think they have an idea of impeachment that's more like someone walks into his office and tells him he's fired and then escorts him outside. I remember getting excited watching the Comey's testimony in Congress. Someone on /r/politics convinced that "Thursday he is going down, finally!" so Thursday came and nothing really happened. Comey said Trump was mean to him. Which is unfortunate, but that was about it.

He had 2 scoops of ice-cream. He shook Macron's hand for too long. He made secret coded gestures toward Putin during their G20 summit dinner. It just doesn't end.

These conspiracy theories and "news" are an important narrative because they explain why the election was lost. We have all been in a bubble, watching the main news channels, saw the poll results, explained as "Trump has only a 5% chance of winning" by the "experts" and "analysts" and so on. Then all of the sudden he did win and wah! instead of Lizard people it has to be the Russians or whatever.

As for what news sources to look, it's really hard to find any. You might try a something like Al Jazeera, although they are biased when it comes to Middle East, especially Qatar. Usually if a country or news channel doesn't have a stake in the game, they might as well report something more fairly. But yeah I haven't really found anything reliable. Things like CNN, NBC, Washington Post, NYT have turned into what Fox used to be pretty much.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#138
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how NPR and Fox News can be compared in good faith. Yes NPR has a liberal bias, but for the most part it attempts to reasonably source its articles and publish a journalistically accurate news report. Fox News is not a news channel. They have one or two news programs mixed in with "entertainment". Sean Hannity is not news, but entertainment pretending to be news[^1]. [^1]: https://www.dailykos.com/storie…

NPR is known by pretty much every right-of-center person in the nation as being the Fox News of the left. If you're left-of-center you have a stake in NPR's skewed coverage being the neutral truth (because that validates your world view), but it's just not the case. The bias isn't necessarily in the sourcing or the facts, it's in the selective coverage and the constructed narratives and the overt bias in what kind of…

Where are the liberal insane Sean Hannitys or O'reilly's? Not on NPR. Can I trust NPR will blindly support Democrats? No, they're friendly but still critical.

NPR is a news station that leans left - and you're right, most people that seek the truth also lean left for some reason.

But the left has nothing like "Fox News". There are no liberal infotainment channels that spread propaganda so blindly and unashamedly as Fox News.

Drawing parallels between any news station and "Fox News" is an insult.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because NPR's audience tends to lean strongly left, and the left in general couldn't understand why anyone would vote for this obvious shyster. I don't see that NPR is at all relevant to it. Having a different source of information won't suddenly make people able to comprehend an utterly different way of thinking. I'm sure I could consume nothing but Fox News and other right-wing media and I'd still be unable to comp…

I tend to think one way. To help me understand the "other way," I try to understand their belief system before I try to understand their arguments. Let me try to use two examples, one from each side. Don't worry about why some people believe in welfare before you try to understand their beliefs in "justice." Don't try to understand gun rights before understanding "liberty."

I do this, or at least I like to think I do. For example, I am firmly in favor of socialized medicine, but I understand why many people are against it (both the "they don't understand how it actually works in other countries" camp, and the "they understand it and just don't think it's a good idea" camp). I'm firmly in favor of stricter gun control (although I think the Democrats should ditch it, as it's hurting them and it's way down on the list of priorities) but I understand why people oppose it.

I was basically raised Republican, spent some time as a libertarian, and gradually came around to a Democrat-leaning independent viewpoint. I understand why someone would have voted for Mitt Romney. I understand why someone would have voted for John McCain. I seriously considered voting for John McCain, and the main reason I didn't was his choice of VP.

But Trump eludes me. The man is basically what you get when the worst kind of used car salesman is born into money. I cannot understand how anyone can look at him and say, yes, that man should be leading this country. Not because he disagrees with what I, a Democrat-leaning independent believe, but because he clearly has no actual beliefs, principles, or policies of his own, and for nearly every position he has ever espoused, he has also espoused the opposite, sometimes within the same sentence.

I can understand why a person would believe that we should have less gun control. I can't understand why that person would then vote for Donald Trump, who said that the police should search people on the street and confiscate their guns.

Re: Fear is America’s top-selling consumer product

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If NPR is so objective, why were (are) NPR listeners so shocked that people would actually vote for Trump? I say this as someone who was also confused about this for the longest time. NPR certainly didn't help me figure things out at all.

Because NPR's audience tends to lean strongly left, and the left in general couldn't understand why anyone would vote for this obvious shyster. I don't see that NPR is at all relevant to it. Having a different source of information won't suddenly make people able to comprehend an utterly different way of thinking. I'm sure I could consume nothing but Fox News and other right-wing media and I'd still be unable to comp…

> ...the left in general couldn't understand why anyone would vote for this obvious shyster

If it seems like I'm singling out NPR, I didn't mean to. All left wing outlets messed up or this wouldn't be an issue. I'm saying the audience should do a better job of understanding the people who voted for Trump. And the left-leaning media has to produce many, many pieces aimed in that direction.

Why would Fox News produce pieces to explain to cosmopolitan types why Obama policies failed to improve poverty in Tennessee or El Paso? Or why Iowans without employer-provided healthcare feel like collateral damage in the battle for socialized medicine?

Post reply on HN