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Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

theguardian.com

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Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#451

Post by Danihan »

wbl wrote: post #446
Danihan wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's a bad thing why? Why shouldn't there be nice, exclusive areas to live in, just like there are exclusive schools to attend and exclusive companies to work for?

It's one thing to have Central Park West. It's another to have an entire region whose service workers commute from 3 hours away, whose public schools are off-limits to the poor, whose landlords got rich off of others labor. I see we welcome immigrants sign on the homes of people who have driven out anyone making less then $100,000 a year. It's shocking to see so many want to slam the doors of opportunity and a better…

>I see we welcome immigrants sign on the homes of people who have driven out anyone making less then $100,000 a year.

That is why so many working class people see "big city" liberals as hypocrites.

>but don't ask the state to help pay for your schools, roads, and pension costs while higher education support is massively cut.

I'm not seeing the connection here.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#452

Post by vkou »

humanrebar wrote: post #144
Dude2018 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

...because non-capitalist systems like totalitarianism and communism are known for their humanity?

Totalitarianism and capitalism aren't at all mutually exclusive. Likewise, there exist other isms. Democratic socialism, for one. (Although it can be argued that it's capitalism in sheep's clothing.)

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#453

Post by linkregister »

Balgair wrote: post #440
koolba wrote: post #174

> They earn too much to qualify for state healthcare, but not enough to afford the health insurance offered by their employer. They frequently struggle to find enough money for basics like food and clothes for their children. Victor recently borrowed money from his mother to hold a birthday party for one of his daughters, and from a friend to pay for a dentist appointment. They might want to look into not being marri…

It's pretty sad that the combination of the tax code, income based benefit eligibility, and a high local cost of living make something like "Divorce for the sake of the children" a real option. Christ, is this where we all are now? Just to work and eat, you have to get a divorce and try to finagle your way through the state systems? I don't even know if I know of a word for the feeling I get from this. Despair, resig…

Income inequality is far greater in the Facebook/Google/Mozilla types of places. Rural areas have much less variability.

When hackers grow older, and decide they don't want noise and 4-story apartments nearby, then yes, the peaceful do have an impact. They don't feel it because they donate to EFF and recycle and have a "Nuclear-Free Zone" sign at the entrance to their town.

But the root of Bay Area inequality is housing, full stop.

I took a ride share from the airport a couple of months ago. The driver lives better than I do. He lives in Sacramento and drives all weekend. He then comes back to his 4 bedroom house in a rural suburb. His children attend a decent school. There is low crime in his town.

Other states have other problems, perhaps due to national policies. But the Bay Area's problems are almost all of it's own making.

The worst off are the locals who can't move back to their Midwestern towns as the newcomers can. Their entire support structure is in the Bay Area. So their only option is to move to Antioch or Tracy to accept a 2 hour commute for a $15/hr job.

You're right that there will be unrest, but it won't be in Alabama, nor will it be in Fresno. It'll be where the nice hackers live.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#454

Post by kafkaesq »

Danihan wrote: post #445
kafkaesq wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnstown_Flood

And so now we have strict liability law. Considering that, I don't believe this case, really justifies your (apparent) paranoia against the free market.

It isn't paranoia when the entire history of the "free market" demonstrates that... (not all, but a far to high proportion of) these entities pretty much will screw over everyone and everything they can, in exchange an extra buck or too -- unless very rigorously constrained from doing otherwise.

Or that is to say, "regulated".

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#455

Post by AnOscelot »

xenihn wrote: post #409
mcgrath_sh wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree so much. At $75k/yr in my area, you would be able to live in a top 15 school district and go on a family vacation anually. I literally cannot conceptualize scraping by on $75k a year. That is just unfathomably expensive!

What area is that?

Kansas City, and it's nearly infinite suburbs, would be incredibly comfortable at 75k. Could easily afford a nice home in one of the bustling urban neighborhoods, or a 2,000+ sq ft. in the burbs, or something with a few acres out in the country but near an interstate for commuting.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#456

Post by kafkaesq »

booleandilemma wrote: post #449
kafkaesq wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are excluded from events because they are working not for Facebook, but a food service company that contracts for Facebook. This may be technically true, but ultimately it's just window dressing. And for FB (and many other companies that play the same game with its more expendable workers), a convenient dodge in terms of both expenses and liabilities. If you show up at Facebook's building every morning, work in…

This is pretty standard, isn't it? The people who clean my company's office don't attend our town hall meetings, eat lunch with us, or take part in our 401k. They may be working at Facebook, but they work for their own company.

This is pretty standard, isn't it?

Actually it's a fairly recent invention. It only seems "standard" if one has no recollection of a time and a place (not so far back) when outsourcing (and the systematic discounting of blue collar workers, generally) wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is today.

They may be working at Facebook, but they work for their own company.

We all acknowledge that that's the way things (technically) are. What's at issue is whether that's the way they ought to be.

And the extent to which, while it may be technically correct that these people are working for different companies... on a deeper, more fundamental level -- it's just a big gimmick.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#457

Post by Danihan »

kafkaesq wrote: post #454
Danihan wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so now we have strict liability law. Considering that, I don't believe this case, really justifies your (apparent) paranoia against the free market.

It isn't paranoia when the entire history of the "free market" demonstrates that... (not all, but a far to high proportion of) these entities pretty much will screw over everyone and everything they can, in exchange an extra buck or too -- unless very rigorously constrained from doing otherwise. Or that is to say, "regulated".

THAT'S why there are so few issues in the heavily government controlled sectors of the economy, like health care, public education and drug policy. /s

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#458

Post by cutler »

I'm not saying Zuckerberg couldn't do more to include his cafeteria workers but let's face it, even doubling the pay rates of the workers at the bottom of the pile won't solve their problems because they lie elsewhere - with the free-for-all property and rental markets which have been tearing communities apart across the globe for decades. Nowhere is the brutal reality of capitalism and its failings more evident than in the property market. Property and finance are founded on the principle of getting something for nothing but someone has to pay - you, who have only your labour to sell.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#459

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

tyingq wrote: post #430
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really seem set on missing kafkaesq's point, take this specific line from the article, and this specific line from you: the distance between the two classes of Facebook workers can feel immense. >I don't personally see a difference other than the average wage for what I do. As a highly-paid tech contractor it is obvious on which side of that class divide you fall. Even though you were a contractor. So when you sa…

No I'm not missing this point I just don't agree with it. Companies contract with other companies for all kinds of services. When I call someone to fix my air conditioner I'm not suddenly responsible for the person fixing the air conditioners wages or social status or class. If Food Service workers are underpaid that's a fair point but it's not something for Facebook to fix. If the idea is just that Facebook employee…

Both the contractor and Facebook share blame, there's plenty to go around. The contractor obviously doesn't pay their workers enough for the area. Facebook is also the one hiring contracted labor to work in the same building as their employees without all sorts of benefits. AKA Facebook is the one who brought that class divide that already exists into their space so that's obviously on them. Facebook has plenty of power here, they could push FFS to pay FB cafeteria workers more or to allow for take your child to work day but they don't because they don't care, that makes them complicit in perpetuating the divide. I'd say what makes this situation bad enough to get its own article is the proximity. Not that the class divide isn't bad when it's hidden but it's situations like this, with rich right next to poor that bring up all those questions about our current bifurcated society that we don't like to talk about. The class divide in America is a problem and in Silicon Valley it's an even bigger problem. The lunch line at Facebook is just an amazingly salient illustration of that.

EDIT: And I would go even further to say that your comments here are an amazing illustration of the justification that happens by those on the upper end. First through a hackneyed attempt at saying "I've been there. It's not that bad." Then through indifference or this sort of broad appeal to "that's just how the market works" or "it's not Facebooks's responsibility" as if poor people just pop out of the aether and it's not our society which creates and allows for poor people to even exist in the first place!

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#460

Post by xenihn »

InitialLastName wrote: post #435
xenihn wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a limited supply of housing and they have no interest in building more. Who is "they"?

The people who own the local supply of housing.

At what point do you think that the interests of citizens who don't own property supersede the interests of those who do?
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