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Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

theguardian.com

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Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#291

Post by jogjayr »

bykovich2 wrote: post #224
oh_sigh wrote: post #208

They're living in their parents garage. With the single biggest cost of living(housing) removed, I'm curious how they can't afford life at 80k/yr. Besides for housing, cost of living does not need to be particularly higher in SV than elsewhere. Either that, or the parents are charging them market rate to live in the garage, which is probably illegal anyway...

How do you figure that "besides for housing, cost of living does not need to be particularly higher in SV than elsewhere"? While housing is undeniably the most wildly out-of-control expense in Silicon Valley, the rest of the essentials of life ain't cheap either.

> the rest of the essentials of life ain't cheap either.

Rent makes up between 1/2 and 2/3 of my monthly spending. Most "essentials" are actually pretty cheap in SV (gas maybe being the exception). Unless you have kids and need to pay for childcare; and that's also a function of the high housing prices because the workers there need to pay rent also.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#292

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

anigbrowl wrote: post #254
wutbrodo wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow. Just wow. For some people, marriage is more than a financial arrangement. Marriage in the legal sense and marriage in the religious/personal/emotional commitment sense are not the same thing. I don't think you're necessarily _always_ wrong, but I also don't see why you think it's so universal that people should load a specific legal status with so much emotional weight and be unable to separate it from the act…

It sounds like you've never been married. It's not a matter of getting the government to approve, it's a matter of getting other people to recognize it. If you have a common-law marriage but it's not documented then if your spouse falls ill and taken to hospital you might be denied visitation rights, for example. I suggest you read some court filings/legal articles on the gay marriage cases from a few years ago to ge…

> hospital you might be denied visitation rights

I don't understand this. If I turn up at the hospital you're in and claim you are my (opposite sex) spouse (with the same surname), do the hospital staff demand to see a certificate of marriage registration and then perform a search to ensure there is no state issued marriage annulment?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#293

Post by kafkaesq »

tyingq wrote: post #141
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #53

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

They are excluded from events because they are working not for Facebook, but a food service company that contracts for Facebook. Works the other way around too. I've done contract programming, on site, for a blue collar heavy business. I didn't get invited to their functions either. I made more than the the average worker there, because our jobs were not the same.

They are excluded from events because they are working not for Facebook, but a food service company that contracts for Facebook.

This may be technically true, but ultimately it's just window dressing. And for FB (and many other companies that play the same game with its more expendable workers), a convenient dodge in terms of both expenses and liabilities.

If you show up at Facebook's building every morning, work in their cafeteria, mop their floors and scrub their toilets -- then for all practical purposes, you're working for Facebook.

I've done contract programming, on site, for a blue collar heavy business. I didn't get invited to their functions either.

Let's please not try to compare the "plight" of contract tech workers to to the situation that bottom-tier contract service workers are in.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#294

Post by kitcar »

troygoode wrote: post #271
oneshot908 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all sorts of wonderful shop classes and related perks at FB. Older and senior talent in my experience is discouraged from attending these classes. Maybe they weren't always that way or maybe someone smacked them with a clue bat over that behavior, don't know...

"shop classes"? like... woodworking?

...and silkscreening - https://www.facebook.com/analoglab/

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#295

Post by kitcar »

troygoode wrote: post #271
oneshot908 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all sorts of wonderful shop classes and related perks at FB. Older and senior talent in my experience is discouraged from attending these classes. Maybe they weren't always that way or maybe someone smacked them with a clue bat over that behavior, don't know...

"shop classes"? like... woodworking?

...and silkscreening - https://www.facebook.com/analoglab/

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#296

Post by anigbrowl »

nylonstrung wrote: post #282
anigbrowl wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you've never been married. It's not a matter of getting the government to approve, it's a matter of getting other people to recognize it. If you have a common-law marriage but it's not documented then if your spouse falls ill and taken to hospital you might be denied visitation rights, for example. I suggest you read some court filings/legal articles on the gay marriage cases from a few years ago to ge…

There are obviously real benefits to being legally married. That said the #1 reason that marriages fail is finances and I can imagine divorce would be massively net positive it if alleviated the financial desperation this family feels, allows them to spend time together vs working overtime and gives them healthcare they wouldn't have access to otherwise. The downsides of not being legally married honestly seem trivia…

I concur about the corrosive effects of poverty, but it seems to me that you're ranking different circumstances in a one-dimensional utility calculus, and I'm arguing that many aspects of a long-term relationship are orthogonal to each other.

Marriage and family are contexts within which people are willing and/or liable to make life and death decisions which transcend fiscal considerations. The combination of a tax code and economic circumstances that (perhaps unintentionally) incentivize the breakup of families and the loss of rights for short-term economic reasons is not politically sustainable.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#297

Post by hkmurakami »

ryandrake wrote: post #258
jeffdavis wrote: post #185

They make decent money -- good money even. This is really an article about the high housing costs in the Bay Area. I don't see any other real message here. All of the people who oppose residential development near work sites are to blame. Period.

Sorry for having to be "that guy" but they're living in Menlo Park for crying out loud! I'd love to live in Menlo Park too, but I can't afford it, so instead I live 2 hours away and commute to work like everyone else. In the Bay Area, living close to work is pretty much a luxury for the rich.

I suspect this is actually East Menlo Park, since the homeowners in Menlo Park proper are very unlikely to rent out a garage like this. East Menlo Park is substantially more affordable than Menlo Park, though at this point more costly than many East Bay areas.

Living in Hayward for example would make housing more affordable, but as you allude to, commute times would likely 4-5x (because bridges) and their kids' education would suffer due to school districts since they likely take advantage of the Tinsley Voluntary Transfer Program to attend schools in Menlo Park's school district (whereas Hayward schools are not good by any stretch of the imagination)

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#298

Post by selectodude »

eropple wrote: post #106
selectodude wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those cities should stop destroying themselves and allow new construction.

Ah, yes. It's the cities' fault. Only the cities'. Not the people piling on top while knowing it's both untenable and unfair to their fellow citizens to piss in the public pool as they are--they're blameless. You know we can walk and chew gum at the same time, right?

What does that even mean?

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#299

Post by anigbrowl »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #292
anigbrowl wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you've never been married. It's not a matter of getting the government to approve, it's a matter of getting other people to recognize it. If you have a common-law marriage but it's not documented then if your spouse falls ill and taken to hospital you might be denied visitation rights, for example. I suggest you read some court filings/legal articles on the gay marriage cases from a few years ago to ge…

> hospital you might be denied visitation rights I don't understand this. If I turn up at the hospital you're in and claim you are my (opposite sex) spouse (with the same surname), do the hospital staff demand to see a certificate of marriage registration and then perform a search to ensure there is no state issued marriage annulment?

No, but consider the situation where A elopes with B (but doesn't get legally married) against the wishes of A's parents, and they have a child C. A tragic car accident puts A and C in the hospital but A is in a coma, and by the time B gets to the hospital A's parents are there and disputing B's eligibility to attend at the bedside of family members.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#300

Post by kafkaesq »

Dude2018 wrote: post #94
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #53

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

The Dude is absolutely right and spot on with this of course -- and in any case shouldn't have been downvoted for pointing it out.

Systematic social segregation and pervasive, manufactured feelings of inadequacy and inferiority aren't merely "bugs" in modern capitalism; they're among its core features.

That's the "real" problem here (as other commenters have identified in this thread).

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