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Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

theguardian.com

211–220 of 546 posts

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#211

They make decent money -- good money even. This is really an article about the high housing costs in the Bay Area. I don't see any other real message here. All of the people who oppose residential development near work sites are to blame. Period.

> All of the people who oppose residential development near work sites are to blame. Period. Are you saying that is the only thing that is keeping the bay area's cost of living high?

Housing costs are exaggerated in San Francisco by orders of magnitude more than every other component of cost of living.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#212
I'm going to come right out and say it and fully expect to be downvoted to death - these people are the problem. Not Facebook (who they don't actually work for) and not their actual employer. They make a combined 75-80k a year. The median household income in CA is 61k. The median for the Silicon Valley area is 94k. They need to get up and move to give their children and themselves a better lifestyle. They have the means to do it based on the state's median household income. They're just being assholes.

They need to make the commute to work and live in a place that's much more affordable. It's that simple. I work in NYC and make substantially more than their combined incomes and yet I don't live in Manhattan or any NYC borough. Why? Because it's hideously expensive in Manhattan and the nearby areas. I drag my ass all the way from central NJ and it takes around 2 hours each way. I'm not an outlier either. They have multiple bus lines to service all the other central NJ commuters. These people need to come to grips that they can't afford to live in that ridiculously overpriced area that happens to be located within a convenient proximity to their jobs.

Also, their entirely mentality is completely fucked. They seemed surprised that they weren't allowed to bring their kids to work when other, actual Facebook employees did. It's like they don't realize they don't actually work for Facebook, but rather just work in a Facebook building. Also, there's this entitlement-driven, handout-seeking garbage: “Our motivation is not to bash either company. It’s for our families. Why do we have to live like this, when the company we work for has the resources to make it better?” So...just because your company has enough money to give you a raise, it should do so? Their employer should just ignore market forces and the fair price for this work? Speaking of which, they receive above the fair market rate already which makes this comment even more astounding. They want their employer to also ignore shareholders/owners interests and just give them more money? And this money wouldn't even be done to retain talent, reward extraordinary performance, or any of the other standard reasons for which this is usually justifiable? Wow. The company I work for makes a lot of money and has fantastic margins. But if I ever was in a performance review and said something like, "hey, the company makes a lot of money and I feel like I should get a larger piece" - and didn't follow it up with a damn good reason to justify that comment and prove my increased claimed value to the company, they'd laugh in my face, and rightfully so.

These people need to get a clue.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#213
As many have pointed out, the main issue here is the Bay Area's cost of living - especially housing. What they're earning is higher than a lot of people in the food service industry, but still isn't enough to afford a decent house or apartment here in the bay area. It's not like Facebook can start paying them 30$ per hour or issue them stock.. some types of jobs just don't scale in terms of salary and it's just unfortunate that homes in the bay area are overpriced.

Something just needs to be done regarding affordable housing here. Otherwise people not doing tech will just slowly get priced out from neighborhoods and will have to deal with living 2 hours away in cheaper areas

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#214
post #174

> They earn too much to qualify for state healthcare, but not enough to afford the health insurance offered by their employer. They frequently struggle to find enough money for basics like food and clothes for their children. Victor recently borrowed money from his mother to hold a birthday party for one of his daughters, and from a friend to pay for a dentist appointment. They might want to look into not being marri…

They might want to look into not being married. Wow. Just wow. For some people, marriage is more than a financial arrangement. They'd also save a bundle by not having kids. Maybe they should sell one of them, it would help pay for the others?

> Wow. Just wow. For some people, marriage is more than a financial arrangement.

In the eyes of the government the only thing in marriage that's more than a financial arrangement is hospital visitation privileges and the right to not testify against your spouse.

I didn't say to annul their wedding vows or diminish whatever non-financial meaning their marriage has.

> They'd also save a bundle by not having kids. Maybe they should sell one of them, it would help pay for the others?

That's disgusting.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#215
Someone else was downvoted for saying so, but Zuckerberg is running for president, which is exactly why he need not look at his own employees. Votes in California are almost a sure bet for D nominee, if he becomes one. It is voters in the swing states that politicians actually have to care about. It is them who have to be understood and pandered to because they have political power.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#216
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might want to look into not being married. Wow. Just wow. For some people, marriage is more than a financial arrangement. They'd also save a bundle by not having kids. Maybe they should sell one of them, it would help pay for the others?

> Wow. Just wow. For some people, marriage is more than a financial arrangement. In the eyes of the government the only thing in marriage that's more than a financial arrangement is hospital visitation privileges and the right to not testify against your spouse. I didn't say to annul their wedding vows or diminish whatever non-financial meaning their marriage has. > They'd also save a bundle by not having kids. Maybe…

That's the point, dude.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#217
post #163

One way to minimize the cost of living impact is to set up satellite offices. Set up a campus in Texas or Oklahoma. It's not like people would not take jobs there. I'm sure some globe trotters would not, but most jobs don't need the globe trotter kind of mentality.

I live in and grew up in Oklahoma and every time I hear a horror story about housing in these high-population areas I balk. I have a good, challenging job making what would be poverty-level income in SF but I have a house, a nice car, and can travel a few times a year. I guess the night life isn't as good or there is "not that much to do" but I hang out with my friends, eat good food, and drink good beer so I'm not so sure what else I could really want.

The tech giants could put satellite offices in OK, or people could just move and shoot for one of the good jobs that are already here. I really don't get why anyone puts up with SF.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#218
They could move to Texas. The price for that garage is probably more than the total cost of a 3000sqft house in north Fort Worth. The Toyota headquarters just moved from CA to TX and those guys are buying large houses in expensive areas of town in cash.

I have known many people who have left CA for exactly this reason. I am sure CA is great when you are young and single, but once reality kicks in CA becomes very expensive.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#219

Everybody here is focusing on real estate. (because young wealthy programmers and older poorer workers have a shared interest in cheap real estate) But I'm really interested in how HN feels about this section: “I felt more secure at my other job. You didn’t have people looking down at you,” Nicole said. Now she works at cafeterias with names like “Epic” and “Living the Dream”, and the distance between the two classes…

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

That's how human morality works unfortunately.

capitalism: "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

meritocracy: "government or the holding of power by people selected on the basis of their ability."

morality: "principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior."

Here's how I think about "us looking down on them":

Assume both capitalism and meritocracy. Then the question becomes: How should superiors (in profit and ability) treat inferiors? That's the morality question. Try putting yourself in the cafeteria worker's shoes (i.e., you do not have ability and profit). How should you be treated? Surely things other than ability and profit should matter. We think "good" people deserve "good" things. What makes a person "good"? Is someone good if they were born with and then cultivated ability? Doesn't the low wage worker also work hard? Then the differences for ability are determined at birth. Does something determined at birth concern one's morality in the present? How about profit? Does someone's wealth factor into their morality?

I do not think morality is concentrated in the powerful. I think there are immoral powerful people and moral powerless people. I think it is fair to treat a moral person with respect regardless of their power position. I cannot tell whether a person is moral by their ability and profit so, a priori any other evidence, I believe in being respectful to everyone.

tldr: I judge people based on their morality and power isn't a signal. Therefore, I believe it is wrong to look down upon a person based on their power position.

Re: Cafeteria workers at Facebook struggle to make ends meet

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how capitalism and meritocracy work unfortunately.

Do you believe we live in a meritocracy? EDIT: I guess this is a bad question since it's really a matter of degrees. Perhaps a better question is: How meritocratic do you feel that our society is?

Meritocratic enough for unequal income between skilled and unskilled labour?
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