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Meditation: Why Bother?

vipassana.com

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Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#11

Post by davidw »

petervandijck wrote: post #9
chacha102 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the concept of "limited amount of time" is flawed. Frankly, some people are constantly working and don't have time to meditate. It isn't that they shy away from it because it is hard or takes discipline and willpower, it is because we live in a world that (unfortunately) gives us a limited amount of time during the day that we can spend awake consistently if we don't want to possibly damage our health.

Fair enough. Still though, I don't know, I personally spend a lot of time on things that are not obligatory, so that time is mine to choose how I spend it. Family time, kid time, HN time... If you're "constantly" working, then that's a choice you made, right? [edit: just realized I sound kind of like an ass. I shouldn't speak for other people. Just read this as me talking to myself :)]

It's not about 'constantly working' (I don't), it's about having lots of things that I like to do, plus work. I think even if I were wealthy and didn't have to work I'd find more ways to fill my time than time available. In some ways that's good - I don't remember the last time I was bored - but it does mean my time is limited.

I guess the point is that for me, exercise is probably more efficient, time wise, in terms of benefits/time, and also includes some of the mental things that I think meditation must give you, but of course it's a fairly personal thing, and to each his own.

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#12

Post by awt »

davidw wrote: post #2

I think that, given a limited amount of time, I'd rather do exercise (cycling) than meditate, as it's a pretty good way of 'getting away from things' and thinking without interruptions, and I also get some physical benefits from it.

Mediation is sort of the opposite of thinking. You don't actively think, and when thoughts do occur, you dismiss them.

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#13

Post by earcar »

drblast wrote: post #10

That's one of the best essays I've ever read. It says almost nothing about meditation, but it nails every frustration and unhappiness I've ever experienced. It makes me think that if someone can be that insightful, I'm more likely to go along with whatever he suggests because he's got it figured out so well. Maybe it's time to give meditation a shot.

He has written many books on the subject. I think I'll read the linked one and get the "sequel" soon. http://www.amazon.com/Bhante-Henepola-Gunaratana/e/B002LADY6...

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#14

Post by skybrian »

petervandijck wrote: post #5
davidw wrote: post #2

I think that, given a limited amount of time, I'd rather do exercise (cycling) than meditate, as it's a pretty good way of 'getting away from things' and thinking without interruptions, and I also get some physical benefits from it.

Exercise is awesome. I do think the concept of "limited amount of time" is a little flawed. Perhaps the real reason people shy away from meditation is that it's hard and takes discipline and willpower (in a good way)?

Willpower is a limited resource, at least in the short term: http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2009/12/willpower.php

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#15

Post by Avshalom »

>And just because of the simple fact that you are human, you find yourself heir to an inherent unsatisfactoriness in life which simply will not go away. You can suppress it from your awareness for a time. You can distract yourself for hours on end, but it always comes back--usually when you least expect it.

Or you can embrace that inherent unsatisfactoriness and affect real change in the world.

>Examine each of these goals and you will find they are superficial. You want food. Why? Because I am hungry. So you are hungry, so what? Well if I eat, I won't be hungry and then I'll feel good. Ah ha! Feel good! Now there is a real item.

I'm pretty sure happiness is the superficial goal when it comes to food. Food can be a want yeah sure, but it's also a NEED.

In general I just can't abide by this sort of nihilism couched as noble anti-materialism.

If the truest expression of your philosophy leads to you sitting in a cave waiting to starve, freeze, dehydrate, or get eaten by wolves, you can just fuck off.

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#16

Post by wangwei »

Avshalom wrote: post #15

>And just because of the simple fact that you are human, you find yourself heir to an inherent unsatisfactoriness in life which simply will not go away. You can suppress it from your awareness for a time. You can distract yourself for hours on end, but it always comes back--usually when you least expect it. Or you can embrace that inherent unsatisfactoriness and affect real change in the world. >Examine each of these…

Apparently, you didn't understand the essay or the meditation. Meditation is not nihilism or anti-materialism. I am not sure how i can explain it to you to make it clear to you. I remember from a Buddhist saying that if your glass is full, there is nothing one can do about it. You need to remove something in your glass first before you can pour anything else into it. I feel like you are full of ignorance and false assumptions about meditation. Unless you become openminded and really try to understand what meditation is, nothing is going to change your mind.

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#17

Post by michael_dorfman »

drblast wrote: post #10

That's one of the best essays I've ever read. It says almost nothing about meditation, but it nails every frustration and unhappiness I've ever experienced. It makes me think that if someone can be that insightful, I'm more likely to go along with whatever he suggests because he's got it figured out so well. Maybe it's time to give meditation a shot.

Actually, it says almost everything about meditation.

I definitely recommend that you (or anyone else interested) give meditation a shot-- but I'd suggest that you find a teacher. Otherwise, it's a bit like trying to learn to swim from a book.

There are a lot of meditation centers around, and most of them don't charge money or require adherence to any doctrine whatsoever. In my experience, they are happy to have you there, and happy to show you how it's done.

That being said: as books go, Bhante G.'s is one of the best.

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#19

Post by Avshalom »

wangwei wrote: post #16
Avshalom wrote: post #15

>And just because of the simple fact that you are human, you find yourself heir to an inherent unsatisfactoriness in life which simply will not go away. You can suppress it from your awareness for a time. You can distract yourself for hours on end, but it always comes back--usually when you least expect it. Or you can embrace that inherent unsatisfactoriness and affect real change in the world. >Examine each of these…

Apparently, you didn't understand the essay or the meditation. Meditation is not nihilism or anti-materialism. I am not sure how i can explain it to you to make it clear to you. I remember from a Buddhist saying that if your glass is full, there is nothing one can do about it. You need to remove something in your glass first before you can pour anything else into it. I feel like you are full of ignorance and false as…

You're really going to call me close minded in defense of an essay that gets all of five paragraphs in before calling my experiences and emotions fake?

An essay that dismisses the idea that there exists people comfortable with feeling the full range of human emotions, that dismisses civilization as a whole as self deception?

And you're sure you want to defend a Buddhist by telling me he's not anti-materialistic?

Also in response to that Buddhist saying? I choose to get a bigger glass.

Re: Meditation: Why Bother?

#20

Post by Estragon »

davidw wrote: post #2

I think that, given a limited amount of time, I'd rather do exercise (cycling) than meditate, as it's a pretty good way of 'getting away from things' and thinking without interruptions, and I also get some physical benefits from it.

I do about 2 hours of meditation a day. This is useful because it builds a huge capacity for emotional regulation and lets me stand in situations I once would have run from or otherwise sought to avoid, and and I can still clearly see what's going on in these situations. Exercise has its merits (I also walk about 2 hours a day) but they are very different.

As Suzuki Roshi said "Sit Zazen. To live life without sitting Zazen is like winding a watch without setting it: It will run, but it won't tell you the correct time."

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