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Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

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Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#61
post #27

Tools don't keep projects on track. Communication skills and project management skills keep projects on track. I believe the most important task is to teach your team members those project management skills. Teach them the skills to recognize unexpected events and know to communicate those bad news proactively. For example, an assigned task turned out to be much more difficult or larger scope than previously thought?…

The first thing you will get for raising a issue, is a slap over the head for "bringing everybody down" and "not thinking positively".

Many managers view incursions of reality upon there vision as a personal attack.

You are right though, good communication is the best approach.

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#62
post #6

The only project management tool I've ever seen work effectively - I'm not even kidding - is a whiteboard with Post-it notes stuck to it. Everything else is snake oil.

To me a digital version is a shared google spreadsheet. Both work well.

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#63
post #53

I'm honestly surprised no one has said it yet, but you shouldn't be thinking about tools at this stage. You should start on Monday and see what they are using, identify where it's not working and propose a solution. It's simply to early to think about the solution at this stage. (With that said I manage a remote team and we use kanban on trello, heroku and slack. We only meet as needed)

Second this. More than once I've heard that the best thing a new director can do is learn the current state of things for the first six months. Coming into a team as a new leader and changing things without learning about the team first isn't a good idea. Don't come up with fixes for imaginary, or the wrong, problems.

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#64
post #57
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tools don't keep projects on track. Communication skills and project management skills keep projects on track. Great comment. Good methods are more important than tools, to keep projects on track. As in, methods of doing things, not OOP methods. Tools, while they can be useful (though no panacea), are secondary, and also, some tools bind you into fixed ways of doing things, which may be a hindrance at times.

Another dark side to tools is that they are a vector for procrastination. You can convince yourself (or justify at least) that you need a new X and that's the answer. You'll spend a few hours evaluating various Xs. You might end up using it for a few days but then you quickly fall back to the tools you usually use. I've seen this with email clients, todo apps, project management tools, etc.

True. Tools paralysis, like analysis paralysis ...

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#65
post #27

Tools don't keep projects on track. Communication skills and project management skills keep projects on track. I believe the most important task is to teach your team members those project management skills. Teach them the skills to recognize unexpected events and know to communicate those bad news proactively. For example, an assigned task turned out to be much more difficult or larger scope than previously thought?…

The first thing you will get for raising a issue, is a slap over the head for "bringing everybody down" and "not thinking positively". Many managers view incursions of reality upon there vision as a personal attack. You are right though, good communication is the best approach.

There are ways to raise an issue. An easy method is to question the reasoning with an open mind. Point out flaws in the plan without it being an attack. It's more likely to be viewed as an attack if raised in front of people.

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry, what is your " busy people" a euphemism for?

I mean, for example, a sales director with a stake in the business getting in after a challenging client meeting and creating extremely hyperbolic cards like "Search is incredibly slow!!!" or "Client profile picture is blurry" with absolutely no further details. I've seen this happen with Trello, and it doesn't help anyone. You don't get it with JIRA, because the sales guy really won't be able to use JIRA well enough…

sorry if this is a bit long - I'd usually edit it down but am in a hurry.

So I actually am having trouble following your example.

1 - Do you mean that the landed contract is actually really big and important (basically it's now paying for all of the development) or just another signup?

2 - you called them hyperbolic but picked two examples that can keep clients from taking the software seriously: both examples seem to be something that might be much more important than whatever the team was working on.

What I mean is that if the client is trialing the software, and has a certain process in place but trying yours, then if their search is too slow they might go back to whatever process they had before; you can lose the client. Likewise blurry profile pictures might cause them to decide that it is not polished software they can use.

You did not use examples like "unclear icon on search label!!!" or "client logo NOT on their dashboard" or something stupid.

I also thought that anyone could talk to the stakeholder who added to your board and figure out why it is so important (if it is) or immediately move it if it's not (Assuming it's a big, important client.) Or edit it as appropriate.

Obviously this might mean totally rewriting the feature: perhaps slow search can just be rewritten as showing a recent list of the last ten (whatever) and allow them to be pinned, as the client doesn't really care about search but just wanted to bring up (whatever). I say this because for really old searches from archives people wouldn't care about waiting a few seconds, whereas for workflow type things done lots of times all the time it really matters.

Obviously a PM is supposed to stand between such a client/internal sales director and the developers but I am having trouble understanding why the PM can't move and translate from the board - assuming these issues and the client is big/important enough.

Emails often get lost or not handled with appropriate urgency for the case at hand (and can even be marked wontfix or feature request simply due to lack of communication) so if you wrote a bit more about your example I might understand better.

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#67
post #64
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another dark side to tools is that they are a vector for procrastination. You can convince yourself (or justify at least) that you need a new X and that's the answer. You'll spend a few hours evaluating various Xs. You might end up using it for a few days but then you quickly fall back to the tools you usually use. I've seen this with email clients, todo apps, project management tools, etc.

True. Tools paralysis, like analysis paralysis ...

Analysis of tools paralysis!

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#68

About a year ago, I took over a small team of 3 developers that was floundering and demoralized. This was not a remote team but I think that's incidental for the most part. I admit I'm writing this mainly as a testament to my own experience. But I think it includes some sound advice (a lot of which I collected from Hacker News discussions over the years.) Process is key. Tools should serve the process and the team. F…

Great post. I am in the situation and can confirm that this works. I don't do the 1-on-1 though but will introduce them soon. It's a great idea. How involved are yiur developers in the design process? Do they work in a whole story from a to z or do they get handed over requiremebts, ux and ui and then only work on the inplementation? I am trying to get a real a to z process in place, but its quite hard

We have the luxury of having a good UX/UI designer on the team so I am happy to defer to her on design questions. These should be spec'd out in the Trello card as a checklist and mockups attached in an easily readable format so that any questions can get addressed and hashed out in the grooming meetings.

In teams without a designer, I'd recommend picking a well-documented frontend framework like Bootstrap to establish a baseline and make sure there's a functional UAT process in place.

As far as getting a process in place, I agree it's challenging. Scrum provides a great foundation. But as the regular threads on scrum in Hacker News show, many orgs adopt it without really appreciating how it all fits together and as a result there's a good amount of well-earned resistance to it. At a previous company, we initially brought in a consultant for three days of in-house training. I believe it was money well spent. But we still managed to screw it up in critical ways.

I think establishing and documenting best practices is important, for both process and coding. I'm a big fan of checklists and transparency generally. A lot of my effort goes toward establishing consistency and eliminating surprises.

There's also the Joel Test, which is another good way to measure dev team health and smooth out some aspects of the dev process:

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/08/09/the-joel-test-12-s...

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, for example, a sales director with a stake in the business getting in after a challenging client meeting and creating extremely hyperbolic cards like "Search is incredibly slow!!!" or "Client profile picture is blurry" with absolutely no further details. I've seen this happen with Trello, and it doesn't help anyone. You don't get it with JIRA, because the sales guy really won't be able to use JIRA well enough…

sorry if this is a bit long - I'd usually edit it down but am in a hurry. So I actually am having trouble following your example. 1 - Do you mean that the landed contract is actually really big and important (basically it's now paying for all of the development) or just another signup? 2 - you called them hyperbolic but picked two examples that can keep clients from taking the software seriously: both examples seem t…

Ignoring the specifics of my examples, which really aren't important, the problem is the frequency with which these process failures happen. If the board is in a near-constant state of mayhem and flux because the sales director makes a list of "super urgent" bugs that have come out of a client meeting (because, of course, categorisation of bug urgency is not something mere mortals can really handle - everything is always urgent) and the art director has suddenly decided to make another list of visual flaws he's spotted, and so on, then no one can really get anything done because it all surprisingly quickly turns into a mess. I find Trello enables this sort of behaviour because the barrier to entry is so low, and I say this because I've seen it happen several times.

As I said upthread, Trello is adequate if you've got a project manager vigilantly pruning the board - but if you have the resources for a project manager able to do that, then why not just get them to use something that's really much better suited to the purpose?

Anyway, this is just my opinion based on my experience. Trello is a good tool for certain things. I don't think it's a great tool for managing a software project with a team of more than about three people, and even if you can make it work, I think most teams would really just benefit from using either JIRA or equivalent, or maybe GitHub Projects (which I haven't tried, but it looks quite good).

Thanks for your reply.

Re: Ask HN: What are some good tools for keeping a software project on track?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry if this is a bit long - I'd usually edit it down but am in a hurry. So I actually am having trouble following your example. 1 - Do you mean that the landed contract is actually really big and important (basically it's now paying for all of the development) or just another signup? 2 - you called them hyperbolic but picked two examples that can keep clients from taking the software seriously: both examples seem t…

Ignoring the specifics of my examples, which really aren't important, the problem is the frequency with which these process failures happen. If the board is in a near-constant state of mayhem and flux because the sales director makes a list of "super urgent" bugs that have come out of a client meeting (because, of course, categorisation of bug urgency is not something mere mortals can really handle - everything is al…

This actually makes it super clear, thanks for expanding!

What do you think about this:

Based on what you've written, for companies that are married to Trello it almost sounds like there should be a 'staging' board and a 'production' board where the process failures you allude to can happen on 'staging', but the devs really just see 'production' -- and as soon as stakeholders stop interfering for a while they start matching. :) Then the vigilant PM can move things over to production as they figure out wtf just got 'committed' to staging. (This sync and the fake access may require some kind of automation).

Thoughts? (I know this is off-hand. But in a way I kind of like the power of important people to directly fuck with a todo board. There are so many broken processes where unimportant things are worked on and important things get pushed into a backlog. I mean there's a reason the people you mentioned got the access to fuck up the board in the first place, isn't there?)

This is veering kind of off-topic and I do feel I understand your point very well now, so this is just kind of a hypothetical. Thanks for your answers.

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