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How do I know if I'm good at programming?

danielslater.net

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Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#71

Post by StephenMelon »

shubhamjain wrote: post #24
StephenMelon wrote: post #18

There are 2 types of “good” programmers, who both think the other type is useless. The first is the “rockstar” developer type who is great at prototyping, hitting deadlines no matter what and delivering functionality, albeit full of bugs. They will write 80% of the code and will drive the support team up the wall by breaking the build, causing customer issues in production, security holes and basically seriously degr…

That sounds arrogant and condescending. I don't think that you should have a ship-at-all-cost attitude, notably when it comes with creating an unmaintainable kludge, but the second type, the meticulous kind, can also be ones who over-think every aspect of the output without taking the first step, which benefits no one.

Arrogant and condescending to whom? I said that both types were necessary to succeed exactly because I know the “over-thinking” types can be just as destructive to a software business as hackers who only think short term. My point is that you either identify and hire only unicorn-perfect developers, which you will probably never be able to find enough of, or you build a process that balances the strengths and weaknesses of your varied team members against each other, so that you get a workable happy medium between “move fast and break stuff” and “move slower than the market requires and don’t break stuff” in leiu of being able to hire one infallible genius after another.

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#72

Post by nurettin »

What's wrong with, you know, write correct code that is maintainable and testable?

I've observed that especially correctness is the main line that separates a master programmer from a mediocre one.

If you are constantly making errors and not testing properly, not checking the integrity of your data, etc. You are just mediocre and are probably being held at your position against your will.

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#73

Post by javajosh »

Programming is a skill and a talent, like being a musician, chef or a ballerina. We all have our preferences when it comes to evaluating a performer. There are still customers in government that frown at your mac (because only windows computers are real computers), or think less of your skill overall because you can program in JavaScript ('not a real language'). They are idiots. But they also control the money, and they are also people who don't understand the narrowness of their view.

Meanwhile, there are countless grateful, happy customers who think the kid who slapped together some PHP templates hosted on a slow, insecure $2/mo shared WordPress host is a genius rockstar. This is a more defensible position; it's just also a landmine if the business grows a lot, because any mass of PHP has a limit of how much complexity it can absorb before breaking.

Enterprise customers are particularly hard to generalize over, because each enterprise's software is like a factory, where all the equipment is totally custom made, with all kinds of quirky weirdness that may be part of the secret sauce that makes things work, and no-one really knows if it is, but just keep things working. (Actually it may be larger than a factory, including multiple factories and some supporting supply chains a la Shenzhen).

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#75

Post by shubhamjain »

StephenMelon wrote: post #71
shubhamjain wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds arrogant and condescending. I don't think that you should have a ship-at-all-cost attitude, notably when it comes with creating an unmaintainable kludge, but the second type, the meticulous kind, can also be ones who over-think every aspect of the output without taking the first step, which benefits no one.

Arrogant and condescending to whom? I said that both types were necessary to succeed exactly because I know the “over-thinking” types can be just as destructive to a software business as hackers who only think short term. My point is that you either identify and hire only unicorn-perfect developers, which you will probably never be able to find enough of, or you build a process that balances the strengths and weaknes…

Sorry, it seems I didn't read your comment carefully. I raced past the part where you mentioned both are necessary. Now, it makes a lot of sense.

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#77

Post by brightball »

Does someone have a problem? Can you build a solution to that problem? If not can you learn to build a solution to that problem? Once built, can you learn to improve that solution?

The best advice on the profession that I was ever given was simply, "Learn to learn."

The vast majority of this profession is just being interested in figuring out how to solve different problems. Sometimes that means it's all you and sometimes it means learning new things or doing research.

You know that you are not a good programmer when you don't see any problems that need to be solved.

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#78

Post by [deleted] »

StephenMelon wrote: post #18

There are 2 types of “good” programmers, who both think the other type is useless. The first is the “rockstar” developer type who is great at prototyping, hitting deadlines no matter what and delivering functionality, albeit full of bugs. They will write 80% of the code and will drive the support team up the wall by breaking the build, causing customer issues in production, security holes and basically seriously degr…

[deleted]

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#79

Post by fragmede »

StephenMelon wrote: post #18

There are 2 types of “good” programmers, who both think the other type is useless. The first is the “rockstar” developer type who is great at prototyping, hitting deadlines no matter what and delivering functionality, albeit full of bugs. They will write 80% of the code and will drive the support team up the wall by breaking the build, causing customer issues in production, security holes and basically seriously degr…

Sounds like you've worked with quite a lot of wannabe rockstar programmers. Look, you're not wrong - there are certainly mediocre programmers out there who have decided that quantity is its own quality, and can bang out lots of buggy code really quickly. However, just like there are a lot of middling to good musicians out there, but only a few truly great ones, there's something that separates the good from the great, and the same goes for programmers.

Unfortunately for us mere mortals, programming is not quite a performance art (despite the existence of /r/watchpeoplecode), so there's not anything to point at globally as this is what a great programmer looks like.

Moreover, a company's culture is the culture - if they put up with assholes who can program a little bit, they'll also put up with assholes in be other positions for different reason.

Personally I'd choose somewhere else to work.

Re: How do I know if I'm good at programming?

#80

Post by spo81rty »

brightball wrote: post #77

Does someone have a problem? Can you build a solution to that problem? If not can you learn to build a solution to that problem? Once built, can you learn to improve that solution? The best advice on the profession that I was ever given was simply, "Learn to learn." The vast majority of this profession is just being interested in figuring out how to solve different problems. Sometimes that means it's all you and some…

I couldn't agree more. It's all about problem solving. The coding part is just how you do it. If you have to be told how to write code or architect a solution, you are not a good programmer... yet!
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