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Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

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Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#51

Post by adam_lowe »

The facts of the case are being skewed far from reality. It is sad that innocent until proven guilty seems to have been lost in the rumor mill. Even in a court room at times today that seemed to be the case. Mark and Marian provided seed money for Hashrocket and founded the company with Obie. They also own a separate company called United Directories that provides a paper and online business listing service. The companies are completely separate entities. None of this has anything to do with or any impact on Hashrocket. Hashrocket is a stand alone, profitable consultancy. That being said, I have always known Marian and Mark to do everything they engage in with the utmost integrity.

Hashrocket and United Directories are in the same office building. I was in the conference room next to the United Directories space when the police came to serve their warrants to United Directories. The police officers proceeded to tell the United Directories employees, "You no longer have a job. This company does not exist anymore. You will not be receiving a paycheck." Again, what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Then came the bail hearing today. It lasted 5 hours. I was shocked and disheartened at how few actual facts were presented by the prosecution in order for them to drag someone into court. I was further disturbed when there was almost no basis provided or facts provided to how they were making the jump from what information they did have to trying to accuse Mark, Marian and their employee Chris of the allegations against them. The prosecution then further showed a total lack of ability to understand a basic business banking account or simple math. The judge made the decision at the end of the day to release Mark, Marian and Chris on bond but the prosecution forced his hand with a legal technicality to delay the decision.

At the end of a very long and tiring day I have no reason to doubt my friends' character. I am saddened at what I saw transpire in our law enforcement and legal system over this past week. Hashrocket is self-sufficient and will continue to build awesome web applications for our clients. We would appreciate everyone's support in promoting facts over rumors.

Thank You,

Adam Lowe

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#52

Post by diathesis »

obiefernandez wrote: post #23

Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail…

Having absorbed the idea of 'sweep account' from Wikipedia, I'm not sure I understand why that matters to the tale. Summing up deposits sounds like bad practice, for sure, but I'm not having any luck understanding why the fact that it's a sweep account matters.

Sounds like a sweep account is just an umbrella for a day-to-day account and an investment vehicle.

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#53

Post by rbxbx »

duck wrote: post #37

I don't really care if a company wants to be "hip" or whatever, but title's like "Chief Morale Officer, in charge of alchohol and fun activities" just make you look like idiots.

These damn kids running around, enjoying life, that's just wrong.

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#54

Post by vollmond »

pvg wrote: post #42
obiefernandez wrote: post #23

Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail…

1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint If the people named in the complaint are executives of Hashrocket, then it has something to do with Hashrocket, however indirectly. 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty In the US criminal justice system, there is a presumption of innocence. That doesn't have much to do with whether one is actually guilty or innocent, in the USA or…

In the US criminal justice system, there is a presumption of innocence. That doesn't have much to do with whether one is actually guilty or innocent, in the USA or anywhere else.

Nor does this have much to do with whether the public (your paying customers and/or neighbors) believe you are actually guilty or innocent, unfortunately.

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#55

Post by Encosia »

rmoriz wrote: post #41
milesf wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take out the https:// and you're redirected to http://www.bizyellow.com/

What's technically interesting: http://www.bizyellow.com/ looks at first view like a .NET app (.aspx) but after a closer look it's definitly a Ruby on Rails app.

Out of curiosity, what makes that look like a .NET app to you? The cross-domain links to ASPX pages or something else?

Not disagreeing, just interested.

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#56

Post by CayceBalara »

diathesis wrote: post #52
obiefernandez wrote: post #23

Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail…

Having absorbed the idea of 'sweep account' from Wikipedia, I'm not sure I understand why that matters to the tale. Summing up deposits sounds like bad practice, for sure, but I'm not having any luck understanding why the fact that it's a sweep account matters. Sounds like a sweep account is just an umbrella for a day-to-day account and an investment vehicle.

It's in this sentence at the end of the wiki article:

"Some companies choose to have all of their funds swept into a sweep account..."

Some sweep accounts go back and forth in total every night, some only go back and forth according to funds being over or under a certain threshold.

Let's say your business on average has $10k in an account that doesn't earn interest, because legally the bank can't pay you interest on a business checking account. But, they want to pay you interest, because they want your business.

Every night, the bank "sweeps" the money from the checking account into an investment account that earns interest, then "sweeps" it back into the checking account. That way, they follow the law and you get interest on your funds. It's a completely legit paper trade, nothing more.

However, if this happens every night, and you have $10k in your account on average, then in a week the sweep account shows $70k in deposits, though you're true balance is only $10k.

If you have an Etrade stock account, you see the exact same thing happening between the cash in your account and a money market fund, all transactions marked with the word "sweep" in one form or another.

If prosecution merely added up the deposits in a back-and-forth sweep account to get the $425mil number, then it is a bit ridiculous to call it a "$425mil fraud".

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#57

Post by techiferous »

obiefernandez wrote: post #28
oldgregg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have little doubt this is essentially what happened-- quite possibly operating completely within the law. Perhaps they do publish a book. But we've all heard about "directory" services like this and I dare anyone to keep a straight face and say they don't greatly benefit from deceiving people.

They produced, published and mailed out a real 1000+ page book, twice a year, and I'm aware that it cost them millions of dollars and lots of manpower to do so. We can debate the usefulness of paper-based yellow pages in this day and age until the cows come home, but either way it would not mean they committed fraud.

Obie, sorry to hear about this fiasco.

Do you by chance have an example of the solicitations in question? Showing that the solicitation was designed in good faith (and not to confuse people) can go a long way to quell the rumor mill.

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#58

Post by cjoh »

obiefernandez wrote: post #23

Importantly: 1) Hashrocket has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal complaint 2) In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty Now if you're interested in this case, read on... There are hundreds of independent yellow pages (including Yellow Pages United) that legally use the term Yellow Pages and the "walking fingers" logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pages My partners have been doing direct mail…

Obie,

Totally understand your distraughtness. And loyalty to friends is a bfd in my book. That being said, it's probably in the best interests of you and hashrocket to not comment, to not talk about it, to have a conversation with your lawyer about it, and let the courts be the courts.

Re: Hashrocket execs (not Obie) charged in $425 million mail fraud case

#59

Post by blueag »

adam_lowe wrote: post #51

The facts of the case are being skewed far from reality. It is sad that innocent until proven guilty seems to have been lost in the rumor mill. Even in a court room at times today that seemed to be the case. Mark and Marian provided seed money for Hashrocket and founded the company with Obie. They also own a separate company called United Directories that provides a paper and online business listing service. The comp…

It's how often people claiming to have the utmost integrity turn out to be crooks. Yes, it's innocent until proven guilty but your words now are already smearing the prosecution. You have already claimed there's no basis for any wrong doing. Do you know the facts? Why don't you wait until the court sorts out the detail?

It's funny how all the defenses presented in HN are character witness. Do you know for sure that they didn't send out fake invoice to trick people into paying them money?

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