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Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

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Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#21

Post by brudgers »

The two examples in the article were owned by large educational conglomerates: Apollo and Kaplan. They are clearer examples of big companies end of lifeing a product than examples of the Bootcamp market.

Since the salary a skilled and experienced developer can make in the current job market does not really align with University of Phoenix's adjunct pay scale and tuition rates, it is hard to see how a Bootcamp could generate similar rates of return to UoP's accredited college degree programs. UoP has a widget making process via the sharing economy similar to Uber's. The analogy might be if Uber recruited professional race car drivers for a service claiming to get riders to the airport faster.

Both Kaplan and Apollo have a different economic model than many bootcamps. Many bootcamps generate significant revenue from job placement in addition to or in lieu of tuition. Currently, the sweet spot of bootcamps looks like it might be outsourcing on the job training more than as traditional private business schools. Over the long run, programming will be better suited to the private business school model as programmers become common in small businesses in the way bookkeepers are.

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#22

Post by HillaryBriss »

kevingadd wrote: post #8
tptacek wrote: post #5

A 250k Haskell programming job in SFBA is prima facie evidence of a "skills gap". The law of supply and demand says that's how you evaluate an inadequate number of available programmers. It's facile to suggest there's an adequate labor supply because employers can acquire developers simply by paying 5x the national median income. I would suggest instead that we focus on two other problems with bootcamps, one mentione…

If I were thinking about working as an instructor at a bootcamp, low placement rates would probably discourage me from doing it - the last thing I want is to participate in a training program that cons jobseekers out of money, even if the salary is good.

amen to that. i took a look at one of those teacher gigs and couldn't believe how much they were charging the students. it seemed like i would be participating in a scam.

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#23

Post by austenallred »

wolco wrote: post #2

Because those who can learn under those conditions can easily learn the material for free and many have before attending. What they use a bootcamp for is a bridge into a career. People are finding other less costly ways into the job market. The bootcamps of the future will focus on either the experienced developers wanting to learn a new language/skill quickly. The structure will be like an extended conference where…

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to teach yourself, especially when there are so many different ways to learn and a million different paths to take. One of the most important parts of bootcamps, in my mind, is that all of the curriculum is there, in the right order, and on a set schedule. When I taught myself to program I probably spent 80% of my time finding the right resources and understanding what I should be learning and 20% of my time learning. I think it takes a pretty special person to self-teach when you don't know what you don't know.

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#24

Post by bogomipz »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #3

I think the biggest factor causing these bootcamps to go out of business was stated in the article: there is no IT worker shortage. The fact that most of the people attending those bootcamps already held Bachelors degrees strongly implies that. If there was a real worker shortage, employers would be hiring people without degrees and have them do the best they can. I think bootcamps arose as a result of an industry-wi…

>"With the labor market finally actually tightening, and with the PR move not working as well as was hoped, people are starting to see that the virtue signalling offered by bootcamps aren't as necessary as they thought."

The US economy may be moving towards full employment but that doesn't in any way mean that the tech sector is moving towards full employment. Tech is but one sector of the overall labor market. Tech along with health care are two segments of the economy that continue to add jobs faster than any other segment. See:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/04/03/t...

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#25

Post by david-gpu »

trentmb wrote: post #16
pjdemers wrote: post #10

People are realizing that even though coding pays well, it's not a job for everyone. We hired 4 people out of boot camps. All had a decent level of skill (of course they did, we choose the 4 we liked out of dozens available). However after a few weeks, two of them left, saying: "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades". And they went back to their old jobs and old pay.

> "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades" Not a bootcamp grad, but I just hit my two year mark a couple weeks ago and want to blow my brains out. Writing internal web applications is the most mind numbing thing ever. It's gotten to the point where I have so much trouble keeping focused at work. The real issue is that I have no idea what field I'd pivot into.

If it's mind-numbing, can it be automated? Can you use higher-level tools to build them and reduce the repetitive parts?

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#26

Post by [deleted] »

trentmb wrote: post #16
pjdemers wrote: post #10

People are realizing that even though coding pays well, it's not a job for everyone. We hired 4 people out of boot camps. All had a decent level of skill (of course they did, we choose the 4 we liked out of dozens available). However after a few weeks, two of them left, saying: "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades". And they went back to their old jobs and old pay.

> "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades" Not a bootcamp grad, but I just hit my two year mark a couple weeks ago and want to blow my brains out. Writing internal web applications is the most mind numbing thing ever. It's gotten to the point where I have so much trouble keeping focused at work. The real issue is that I have no idea what field I'd pivot into.

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#27

Post by SeeDave »

trentmb wrote: post #16
pjdemers wrote: post #10

People are realizing that even though coding pays well, it's not a job for everyone. We hired 4 people out of boot camps. All had a decent level of skill (of course they did, we choose the 4 we liked out of dozens available). However after a few weeks, two of them left, saying: "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades". And they went back to their old jobs and old pay.

> "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades" Not a bootcamp grad, but I just hit my two year mark a couple weeks ago and want to blow my brains out. Writing internal web applications is the most mind numbing thing ever. It's gotten to the point where I have so much trouble keeping focused at work. The real issue is that I have no idea what field I'd pivot into.

You may enjoy a product manager, technical program manager, or business analyst role more. Not sure what city you're in, but there are plenty of courses at Galvanize! Good luck and please do not blow your brains out!

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#28

Post by [deleted] »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #17
pjdemers wrote: post #10

People are realizing that even though coding pays well, it's not a job for everyone. We hired 4 people out of boot camps. All had a decent level of skill (of course they did, we choose the 4 we liked out of dozens available). However after a few weeks, two of them left, saying: "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades". And they went back to their old jobs and old pay.

That sounds to me like a resounding success. 50% of your hires from a 12 week program worked out? Do you realize what that would mean for the country if we could put people back to work that cheaply?

[deleted]

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#29

Post by david-gpu »

pjdemers wrote: post #10

People are realizing that even though coding pays well, it's not a job for everyone. We hired 4 people out of boot camps. All had a decent level of skill (of course they did, we choose the 4 we liked out of dozens available). However after a few weeks, two of them left, saying: "there is no f'en way I can do this 40 hours a week for the next few decades". And they went back to their old jobs and old pay.

Any specific feedback? What is it that they didn't like?

Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?

#30

Post by sokoloff »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #3

I think the biggest factor causing these bootcamps to go out of business was stated in the article: there is no IT worker shortage. The fact that most of the people attending those bootcamps already held Bachelors degrees strongly implies that. If there was a real worker shortage, employers would be hiring people without degrees and have them do the best they can. I think bootcamps arose as a result of an industry-wi…

Is there evidence that wage growth in the IT sector (or for programmers specifically) is below inflation?

I don't see that at all personally (as an employee nor as a hiring manager).

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