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Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

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Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#41
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exercise is a bad way to increase calories out, because it's just too efficient. The conversion is something like 1 mile run = 1 tbsp peanut butter.

And people almost always overestimate how much they've burnt, and often eat more to compensate.

My (entirely non-scientific) opinion is that most people exercise the wrong way.

After a bit of training, muscles can store carbon-hydrates for about 1.5 hours of exercise. When these carbs a burned, muscles take new carbs directly from the blood stream.

So if you exercise by burning mostly carbs and don't eat, you end up with low blood sugar levels and a very strong urge to eat.

The trick is to burn fat. But to burn fat in a straight forward way you first have deplete the carb store, and basically force muscles to burn fat. This requires exercise that lasts many hours in one go.

The additional benefit as far as I know is that if muscles are trained to burn fat, they will start burning more fat even when not in use. So the effect lasts a lot longer than just the actual amount of exercise.

So we have a culture where exercise means to go to the gym and do exciting things there. Which mainly burns carbs.

In the past when people did manual labor, they worked the same way for an entire day, burning mostly fat.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#42
post #8

Lately I've been having this feeling that the pseudo science of nutrition (not talking about the researchers but the food and lifestyle artists on social media) makes it very hard to find out what a good diet is and what isnt. Meat ? Bad unless it isnt. Dairy and Eggs ? Even worse except when it isnt. Vegan/vegetarian nutrition ? The worst except, you guessed it, when it isnt. If you dont believe me just google any f…

It seems the best thing is to be reasonable. For example, eat a variety of foods from different food groups. Try to expand your pallette. Eat a fair amount of fruit and veg. Ideally, whatever you eat will fit in your lifestyle.

For me, I found a few things (and I've actually lost weight and kept it off for years):

Mostly vegetarian works for me - I eat fish a couple times a month. I had gall bladder problems, though, and have had it taken out. This works well for my body and I like the food. I cook at home 95% of the time. I skip breakfast (I'm not hungry!). I use butter and cream. I also walk often.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#43
post #21
post #10

> The next time you tuck into a protein rich dinner, it may be a good idea to hold off on the sugary drinks. For 300,000 of human existence except the past few decades, humans drank no sugar-sweetened drinks. It is always a good idea to hold off on sugary drinks.

Fruit juice? Does fructose vs sucrose make a difference?

Sucrose is one part fructose and one part glucose. Our cells use glucose for energy directly, the liver metabolizes fructose. This similarity of fructose and alcohol is the basis of the whole sugar is a poison. Fruit is fructose, which is probably why we are to be able to metabolize it, but fruit is generally very high in fibre and around the size of a serving or 2. Serving sizes of juice and additive sugars are extremely oversized.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#44
post #8

Lately I've been having this feeling that the pseudo science of nutrition (not talking about the researchers but the food and lifestyle artists on social media) makes it very hard to find out what a good diet is and what isnt. Meat ? Bad unless it isnt. Dairy and Eggs ? Even worse except when it isnt. Vegan/vegetarian nutrition ? The worst except, you guessed it, when it isnt. If you dont believe me just google any f…

I appreciate the work that Daria Rose (Kevin's wife) has done with her book The Foodist and blog summer tomato. She had the same problem, but she is a Ph D and was looking for a project.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#45
post #6

Note that (at least the summary indicates) this experiment refutes "calories in calories out" theory - food composition affects thermogenesis. (I am not talking about the tautological and useless thermodynamic sense in which it definitely is true; I am talking about the "measure your intake and exercise" crowd)

"Calories in, calories out" is both true (in the thermodynamic sense) and accurate enough to be useful (in a practical sense). I've personally performed the experiment, using MyFitnessPal and a $14 digital scale, and it turns out that I can control my weight to within a few pounds.

There are a few caveats:

- Yes, your diet composition does have metabolic effects. Protein, sugar and fat all follow different metabolic pathways, and converting between them requires energy. Protein is supposedly easier to store as lean mass than as fat, for example. But unless you're already lean and training hard, these effects are relatively minor. If you want to lose 50 pounds of fat, calories are good approximation.

- Unless you're a hard-core distance athlete, the "calories out" side of the equation is mostly useless. Depending on your weight, walking a mile burns about 1 Oreo. Essentially, it takes a lot of energy to run your brain and your digestive system, but exercise is surprisingly energy efficient. So if you work at a desk job, and you don't run 5 miles a day, then use the "Sedentary" option when calculating your daily calories.

- If you want to be both lean and muscular, things get trickier, because you need to worry about your muscle:fat ratio. You can control this with resistance training. But weightlifting while losing fat can be pretty metabolically brutal. Conventional wisdom says that it helps to watch your protein:carbs:fat ratio, and to eat a nutrient-rich diet. (And my personal experience bears this out, especially once I've exhausted the easy gains in the weight room.)

- Most diets fail because most people stop dieting. If you revert to your old habits, you'll eventually revert to your old weight and body composition. As a general rule, few people stick with long-term lifestyle changes.

Losing weight and becoming muscular are both solved problems. The major challenge is sticking with the behaviors that produce the desired result.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#46
post #4

Often people are wary of new results about health, so it's worth pointing out that this paper is rigorous and the conclusion is very likely to be correct, as explained by this comment on Reddit's /r/science [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6oufus/comment/dkk...

> The study was pre-registered (At ClinicalTrials.gov: NCT02211599), with a clear outline of the scope and methods (protocols) to be used. This avoids bias where only hypothesis-affirming data are reported and hypothesis-contradicting data are hidden or discarded.

This is good to see. I wonder if unregistered studies will ever be ignored like non-peer-reviewed studies are.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#47
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fruit juice? Does fructose vs sucrose make a difference?

While I don't have any hard facts or make any claims about what it does, the idea that fruit juice = fruit is likely inaccurate. Juicing seems to leave behind the fiber and concentrate the sugar. It seems at least plausible that there's a significant difference in the digestion and metabolism of each.

You are right. I cant remember the link but there was an article I read that drinking fruit juice is not the same as eating fruits with fiber.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#48
So it seems that for most of our past, this would actually have been beneficial.

The article says: "We found that drinking a sugar-sweetened drink with a meal significantly decreases fat use and diet-induced thermogenesis (heat production)."

So if food is relatively scarce then this is a good thing.

Feels a bit weird to optimize diets for couch potatoes. The article doesn't say how exercise was done, so I assume it was none.

Re: Sugar-sweetened drinks with protein rich meal affect metabolism

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you meant inefficient. It is exceedingly difficult for people to make lifestyle change. Some shockingly small percentage of people lose 40 lbs and keep it off. I have an anecdotal idea that, basically, folks who are fit enough to exercise off 1000-1500 calories every week and do so are the ones that never have to lose the weight in many cases. Finally, although inefficient in the thermodynamic sense, I think…

Moving the mass of a human body over a mile on one tablespoon of fuel is highly efficient! Edit: tablespoon, not tea-

Trains do about 30 times better on a tablespoon of diesel, and that's only including the weight of the freight and not the train itself.
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