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We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

piratpartiet.se

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Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#31

Post by invisible »

rick888 wrote: post #15
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

"We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for torrent files. The onus is on the criminal, not those who provide tools which may or may not be used in a crime." If I had a website setup exclusively for sharing valid credit card numbers…

This is not what TPB is doing though: they provide a .torrent file that someone else hosts that could potentially contain credit card numbers (for example).

Now, if TPB had things plastered everywhere saying "20th Century Fox Movies," "Paramount Movies," and "Warner Bros. Movies" and all of these linked to illegal movies that none of those companies agreed to have up there for free.... Yeah, that might be bad.

Go to their site and look for something pushing illegal content. Their name contains pirate - that's a stretch. The mention they have music, movies, games, and software but these are not illegal in themselves. That's about as far as the rabbit hole goes.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#32

Post by johnfn »

tsally wrote: post #6
henning wrote: post #2

That talk about freedom of speech is a nice way of defending large-scale copyright infringement.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

This argument doesn't apply. The things that you listed all have legitimate, non lawbreaking uses. For instance, security books can help you keep your computer more secure, lockpicks can help you understand your house security, and so on.

A torrent containing a link to a file that is illegal to copy has no legitimate non lawbreaking use case. There is no legal way to use a torrent of Portal. I notice you mentioned in a separate comment that some items, like grenades, can only be used in illegal ways. This is true also of torrents that the Pirate Bay hosts.

Yes, it is true that legal torrents exist; however, the Pirate Bay distinguishes itself as having both legal and illegal torrents. That's what the difference is.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#33

Post by sourpoi »

rick888 wrote: post #15
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

"We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for torrent files. The onus is on the criminal, not those who provide tools which may or may not be used in a crime." If I had a website setup exclusively for sharing valid credit card numbers…

The easier it is to find "stolen" credit card numbers, the easier it is for legitimate services to protect against their misuse (analgous to vulnerability disclosure).

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#34

Post by nmftt »

acon wrote: post #8

This really makes me question my vote for the pirate party. I really like them, as a voice for freedom on the internet and beyond, and would really like them to lay of the pirate propaganda and start preaching the gospel of freedom instead. Perhaps I bet on the wrong horse all along. Unfortunately I don't know what the right horse is.

They do "preach the gospel of freedom". If you e.g. have a look at their press releases, you'll see that very few of them are about copyright. But these don't make it very far across the Internet and with obscurity as their greatest threat in the upcoming elections, this kind of "propaganda" is necessary. Also the current issues regarding the pirate bay isn't about copyright as such, but instead about where liability stops.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#35

Post by _delirium »

rick888 wrote: post #22
dkberktas wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, i don't see it as a problem. All I say is try to adapt to the current situation, don't try to impose rules on people so that your way of seeing things continue. If people prefer to watch movies at their home w/out paying for it, what the movie industry should do is to find other ways of making money, becuase bannign things is not going to work.

"Well, i don't see it as a problem. All I say is try to adapt to the current situation, don't try to impose rules on people so that your way of seeing things continue. If people prefer to watch movies at their home w/out paying for it, what the movie industry should do is to find other ways of making money, becuase bannign things is not going to work." By adapting, they are showing people that it's okay. It's not. Ru…

> One of the main arguments is that it's not stealing because revenue is not lost (like a physical item). My argument has always been that over time, the perceived value of the items would go down (because more and more people would expect to get it for free).

I can see that, but I suppose I see the first one as a natural sort of property right, and the second one not. The right not to have someone come into your house and physically remove things from it seems like something reasonable for the government to protect. But the right not to have those things lose value? If someone can make items in my home worthless without actually entering my home and taking them, e.g. by finding a way to make cheap copies of them easily, then I don't see that as a property-rights issue.

I do think encouraging innovation and creation is a worthwhile social goal, but it's different from the idea of protecting property imo. It might be done via quasi-property sorts of temporary monopolies (like patents and copyright), or through government subsidy of the arts and sciences, or both, but it's basically social engineering either way, and which mixture of approaches we take should be based on some analysis of what benefits we get out of each.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#36

Post by SoftwareMaven »

johnfn wrote: post #32
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

This argument doesn't apply. The things that you listed all have legitimate, non lawbreaking uses. For instance, security books can help you keep your computer more secure, lockpicks can help you understand your house security, and so on. A torrent containing a link to a file that is illegal to copy has no legitimate non lawbreaking use case. There is no legal way to use a torrent of Portal. I notice you mentioned in…

I have downloaded many copyrighted works that I own physical media for as a convenience, since ripping them can be such a pain and kids are hard on little plastic discs. Courts have held that this copy is a legal copy.

To say there is no legitimate non-lawbreaking use is incorrect.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#37

Post by tsally »

johnfn wrote: post #32
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

This argument doesn't apply. The things that you listed all have legitimate, non lawbreaking uses. For instance, security books can help you keep your computer more secure, lockpicks can help you understand your house security, and so on. A torrent containing a link to a file that is illegal to copy has no legitimate non lawbreaking use case. There is no legal way to use a torrent of Portal. I notice you mentioned in…

As you say, legal torrents exist (indeed, many open source projects rely on torrents because they can't afford the bandwidth costs of direct download). Therefore, a torrent tracker has both legitimate and illegitimate uses. Similarly, I can find legal and illegal content via a Google search.

There isn't any ambiguity here. Torrents and web search are both multi-use technologies. In the case of multi-use technologies, we should prosecute the criminals based on their use of the technology in question.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#38

Post by pyre »

zyb09 wrote: post #29
rick888 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This really makes me question my vote for the pirate party. I really like them, as a voice for freedom on the internet and beyond, and would really like them to lay of the pirate propaganda and start preaching the gospel of freedom instead. Perhaps I bet on the wrong horse all along. Unfortunately I don't know what the right horse is." I would vote for them as long as "freedom" doesn't mean the ability of anyone to…

I don't think piracy is such a bad thing. Imaging there's a gigantic library that has every music title, movie, TV show, book and software made by man in their shelfs and everybody has free access. Sounds like a desirable thing. Now the problem of course arises when content creators don't get paid anymore and therefore content creation becomes unprofitable or the quality of the products diminishes. But neither of the…

That's kind of missing the point. The content isn't 'free to everybody' because there is always the spectre of getting caught and sued hanging over people's heads.

If the authors/content owners themselves said, "Here's this place where you can get all my content for free, legally, but still buy my albums from the store if you want to support me," then we could have a debate about the results of that.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#39

Post by paul9290 »

tsally wrote: post #6
henning wrote: post #2

That talk about freedom of speech is a nice way of defending large-scale copyright infringement.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

@tsally but Google does not profit nor market itself directly or indirectly from copyright infringement. The Pirate Bay does markets itself and profits(in the millions) from facilitating and the inducement of copyright infringement.

I use to download but grew tired of hoarding content and then hard drive crashes. Thankfully the content creators created Hulu and other legitimate ways to consume their content online. Maybe those who upvoted this live outside of the US?

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#40

Post by jamesbritt »

paul9290 wrote: post #39
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

@tsally but Google does not profit nor market itself directly or indirectly from copyright infringement. The Pirate Bay does markets itself and profits(in the millions) from facilitating and the inducement of copyright infringement. I use to download but grew tired of hoarding content and then hard drive crashes. Thankfully the content creators created Hulu and other legitimate ways to consume their content online. M…

"Thankfully the content creators created Hulu and other legitimate ways to consume their content online"

I wonder where that idea came from ...

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