Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 228 posts

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#141

Post by arde »

GolDDranks wrote: post #127
arde wrote: post #123

> screen time doesn't count Absolutely false. Screen time is an excellent way of exposing the child to a language and thus learning to distinguish the phonemes that make it up. It can be argued that screen time alone doesn't help too much in learning to speak a language (if by screen we mean a non-interactive one, of course). But it's great for listening comprehension. Source: starting when she was a baby, I let my k…

I agree with you but I'm also familiar with the original research the claim about screen time stems from. The claim is that screen time is not effective for "bootstrapping" a different language for very small children - having human interaction does a much better job at that.

Regarding that research, I can see that human interaction should more efficient but that doesn't imply that screen time should be ineffective. And my kid is a counterexample, because it did bootstrap her English. She had no other source since we live in Argentina and we practically didn't talk to her in English. For a while she had some serious British accent because she was hooked on Peppa Pig, but now she sounds mostly American.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#142

Post by pacaro »

joshaidan wrote: post #21

Bilingualism in Canada is very common among French-English languages, and depending on what part of the country you live in, your exposure to both languages can be fairly even. My favourite bilingual situations is seeing a child "complain/whine" to their grandparent in English while the grandparent tries to soothe the child in French. Both understanding each other perfectly. Something that blew me away once was this…

Probably from Wales, although depending on where in the principality he lived, the accent may be quite interesting, and while British, certainly not most people's stereotypical idea of a British accent.

If he lived in Whales, then (if Octonauts is to be believed) the accent could be Texan (Bowhead Whales), English RP (Orca Whales or Sperm Whales), stereotypical Slavic accented English (Narwhals)

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#143

Post by pacaro »

My sister is bilingual, but because she only lived in the U.K. as a child and teenager, there is vocabulary that is used more commonly in adult conversations that she knows, but has a hard time with.

So while she is bilingual by any useful definition, there are common scenarios in which she sounds like a foreigner with "very good English" rather than a native speaker.

Our grandfather had the opposite problem. He lived in the U.K. from age 18, and only had the very faintest accent, but in his 60s and beyond would be frequently complimented that his German was "very good for an Englishman"

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#144

Post by foobaw »

Not trying to brag, but due to my background I ended up trilingual (Korean, Spanish and English).

It all depends on circumstance - I spent a few years growing up in Korea, Latin America and the U.S - and went to school in all three countries where I was forced to learn the native language. It's been a few years but I still speak all those languages due to friends and family so I haven't lost the ability yet.

It's not a very useful skill for my job - but I just wanted to point out that I can attest that immersion as a child is one of the best ways to learn languages.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#145

Post by arde »

cletus wrote: post #52

I'm a native English speaker and not bilingual so feel like an outsider looking in here but this is an area I find interesting. For one, I kind of wish I was bilingual. I suspect this is much easier to achieve as a non-English speaker for several reasons: - The pervasiveness of English as a first or second language - As much as people complain about English, in the transition from Old English to Middle English when E…

> language ability seems to largely be a function of exposure and there's only so much time to go around.

There's an important shortcoming in that reasoning: it assumes that time is fully dedicated to learning whichever language is being used. Furthermore, it doesn't consider the possibility that learning a language may benefit from learning a different one.

Based on my observations while raising my kid bilingual, that's probably not the case. When she learnt a new word in a language, she usually asked for it in the other language too so she could learn both. At 6 years old, she now has much better language skills in both languages compared to her peers. There may have been a period at about 2 or 3 years old that her skills weren't outstanding but she was still perfectly fine by her age's norm (which accounts for quite a bit of variance). My guess is that, after learning a few basics, new language is learnt sporadically with lots of "waiting" time in between, and thus there's practically no time conflict in learning two languages except maybe at the very start.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#146

Post by KayEss »

lomnakkus wrote: post #70
freyfogle wrote: post #6

It's interesting that the article starts with the line "True bilingualism is a relatively rare thing". That's probably the case in the US or English-speaking world, but definitely not the case in many other areas. I live in Catalonia, it is very normal for locals to be fully fluent in Catalan and Spanish, I've seen the same in the Basque region. Go to India and almost every person you meet at all levels of society sp…

> It's interesting that the article starts with the line "True bilingualism is a relatively rare thing". That's probably the case in the US or English-speaking world, but definitely not the case in many other areas. "True bilingualism is a relatively rare thing" is a truly bizarre statement for most of the world, I should think. FTR, I was raised "truly bilingual" -- I would go to kindergarten with kinds who spoke X,…

> Danish, outside of specific persons, has two genders. German and French have three genders

Given that Norwegian and German have three I would expect Danish to also have three. French has two (le + la).

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#147

Post by jwhitlark »

veidr wrote: post #91
hkmurakami wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that I forgot to note. My Japanese is so good that very rarely can someone discern that I didn't grow up in Japan (it's usually through mannerisms or attitude that they glean that I have some foreign background). But even then, I've experienced a glaring lack of cultural fluency that only comes with spending a lot of time in the society. A lot of unwritten rules and customs that we all take for granted for…

I think that's a really interesting point, somewhat orthogonal to language mastery itself, and probably particularly impactful in Japan. A kid might grow up with perfect Japanese and be able to say anything, but choosing what to say can be another matter; how to make or respond to a request, how to deal with an affront, how to present yourself in a hiring interview, or a first meeting with a girlfriend's father... I'…

American culture has evolved to be "loosely typed", simply because people could not count on others having the same cultural background. The whole "loud, simplistic" American stereotype likely has similar roots.

Many (most?) other cultures have not been subjected to the same pressures. Indeed, purity is a common thread throughout most human civilizations.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#148

Post by Baeocystin »

ue_ wrote: post #120
veidr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a really interesting point, somewhat orthogonal to language mastery itself, and probably particularly impactful in Japan. A kid might grow up with perfect Japanese and be able to say anything, but choosing what to say can be another matter; how to make or respond to a request, how to deal with an affront, how to present yourself in a hiring interview, or a first meeting with a girlfriend's father... I'…

Your "bi-cultural" point is interesting, and I don't know how much it is seriously explored. Do you think it's possible for someone with no prior connection to a place to "adopt" the culture by living there? Judging by one's personal feeling, perhaps, but can the same be said about how others might consider you? The reaction your classmates faced seems to exemplify this dichotomy. Your point about the chimpanzee anal…

Not the person you asked, but you need to understand this straight up: You will always be the foreigner. Period. If you don't want to stand out, and feel the need to blend in, you need to live where you grew up. That's that.

Here's the thing, though. Being 'the foreigner' is not a bad thing.

I grew up as the only white kid 99% of the people I interacted with had ever seen. Some of the smaller villages we travelled through, we had to enter/leave at night, because otherwise our simple presence would draw dangerously large crowds. No hyperbole.

There were times I was sick and tired of it. But being the odd one out opened ten doors for every one it closed, and I got to meet an incredible variety of fascinating folks from around the world. That would have been impossible if I was just another member of the throng, too. There are literally billions of other humans out there, and even in the most different of cultures, you will be able to find friends. Even in places that see you as a permanent outsider. It takes work. But it is 100% worth it.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#149

Post by jasonkester »

We pulled this off by moving to France when our first kid was 2 years old. He went in the local village school at age 3 and was happily speaking French to our adult friends at age 5.

A year later, French is just the language that Kids and Strangers speak, so he pulls it out in those situations then falls back to English if that doesn't work.

It's fascinating to watch. I'm trying to gauge when will be a good time to up sticks and move to a Spanish speaking country for a year or two.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#150

Post by KayEss »

geomark wrote: post #103
veidr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a really interesting point, somewhat orthogonal to language mastery itself, and probably particularly impactful in Japan. A kid might grow up with perfect Japanese and be able to say anything, but choosing what to say can be another matter; how to make or respond to a request, how to deal with an affront, how to present yourself in a hiring interview, or a first meeting with a girlfriend's father... I'…

This was thought provoking for me since I am raising a child in Thailand and there seem to be many parallels. Surprising to me is that despite being surrounded by the local language my child has chosen English as his first language. It seems to be due to my constant interaction with him plus he gravitated to English media at a very early age, particularly YouTube videos of American kids unboxing and playing with toys…

(A bit OT, but) Just thought I'd say Hi as it sounds like you have a very similar set up to me. Also in Thailand, also got a kid at an international school.

I'm Norwegian and grew up bilingual in the UK and I see my daughter doing many of the things that I did as a kid. Effortlessly switching language mid-sentence for example. I do expect her to (and hope she does) end up with stronger English than Thai. I think that'll be far more useful to her in life.

Post reply on HN