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Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

nytimes.com

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Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#81

Post by 21 »

yourapostasy wrote: post #69
j_s wrote: post #31

What are the best technologies to help an English-speaking household even introduce other languages?

If you can find an IPTV product exists that supports your target language, then only allow your children to watch TV in that language. A lot of non-native English speakers report picking up a lot of vocabulary and culture through English TV, so hopefully this works in other languages and cultures as well.

As somebody which picked up a lot of Italian and Spanish by watching TV I can tell you about a problem of this method - you will understand it pretty well, but when you'll try to speak it the words just won't come out. You'll immediately recognize the word for "car", but you'll struggle to come up with the same word on demand.

I think this shows that there is a need to also speak/write a language, not just listen/read.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#82

Post by hkmurakami »

hkmurakami wrote: post #2

>But if a child grows up speaking that second language — Korean, say — with cousins and grandparents, attending a “Saturday School” that emphasizes the language and the culture, listening to music and even reading books in that language, and visits Korea along the way, that child will end up with a much stronger sense of the language. Did this from Kindergarten through 10th grade. "Saturday School" was a full program…

One thing that I forgot to note. My Japanese is so good that very rarely can someone discern that I didn't grow up in Japan (it's usually through mannerisms or attitude that they glean that I have some foreign background).

But even then, I've experienced a glaring lack of cultural fluency that only comes with spending a lot of time in the society. A lot of unwritten rules and customs that we all take for granted for our native cultures.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#83

Post by j_s »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #53
j_s wrote: post #31

What are the best technologies to help an English-speaking household even introduce other languages?

Try Duolingo. I use it mostly on the web but they also have really great apps and at least a dozen languages supported.

Thanks! At what minimum age is Duolingo usable?

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#84

Post by jayhuang »

The easiest way to learn a language is simply to put a child in that environment, an environment where they have no other option but to learn. Granted, it's can be immensely stressful, but having been in a similar situation, I can attest that it works.

I grew up in Canada my whole life, but was taken to Taiwan towards the end of my elementary years and enrolled in the normal school system there without so much as knowing the alphabet. Spending 3.5 years there allowed me to pick up the language fluently, at a fluent, accent-less level (reading, writing, speaking, listening). While there I also learned "Taiwanese" at a fluent, accent-less level while visiting produce and night markets.

Now when I interact with Mandarin speakers in Mandarin, they assume I grew up in Asia, and vice versa with English.

On the flip side, many Asian friends who grew up here attended Saturday Chinese schools, and although it helps allow you to communicate on a basic level, most hate learning Mandarin, and thus fight it. Speak with classmates in English the second the teacher isn't hounding them, speak in English during breaks, etc. Many end up not even being capable of conversing

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#85

Post by killedbydeath »

hkmurakami wrote: post #2

>But if a child grows up speaking that second language — Korean, say — with cousins and grandparents, attending a “Saturday School” that emphasizes the language and the culture, listening to music and even reading books in that language, and visits Korea along the way, that child will end up with a much stronger sense of the language. Did this from Kindergarten through 10th grade. "Saturday School" was a full program…

It's not obvious that speaking second language better will come out at the expense of English. I grew up bilingual and was at the top of my class for my second language compared to monolingual natives. There are whole countries of bilingual/trilingual people in Europe who speak their main language very well still. I think knowing a second (and later third) language gave me a better understanding of language structure. Same in sports, if you are athletic, you will have easier time picking up new sports.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#86

Post by rahimnathwani »

jayhuang wrote: post #84

The easiest way to learn a language is simply to put a child in that environment, an environment where they have no other option but to learn. Granted, it's can be immensely stressful, but having been in a similar situation, I can attest that it works. I grew up in Canada my whole life, but was taken to Taiwan towards the end of my elementary years and enrolled in the normal school system there without so much as kno…

I read your comment and assumed you had no exposure to Mandarin before moving to Taiwan. Then I saw your username and am now assuming you did. But I could be wrong :)

I'm curious to know how early you were exposed to hearing Mandarin sounds (from birth?) and whether you spoke Mandarin at all with your family before you moved to Taiwan.

I ask because one of the toughest things getting started for many foreigners learning Chinese is being able to distinguish the tones when listening and speaking, and AI read some report of some research that said that early exposure to hearing another language (I think at under 12 months old) allows you to distinguish the sounds that occur in that language, even if you only learn that language later in life.

If you went from zero to fluent in 3.5 years, that's awesome. I can imagine the second half being hard but doable. I can't imagine how you got through day 1 and month 1 at all!

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#87

Post by jeeceebees »

joeyspn wrote: post #46
p1esk wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I thought Spanish and Portuguese are extremely similar, so that a native speaker of one should understand most of the other.

Yeah, that’s a common misconception, but the reality is different. Just because they’re in the same linguistic group (Romance-derived languages) doesn’t mean they’re the same. It’s like saying that german, dutch and english (Germanic languages) are extremely similar… =)

German and Dutch are extremely similar. As a fluent Dutch speaker without any formal German lessons whatsoever I can read German pretty well. Speaking and understanding are more difficult, but I'd say most Dutch/Germans would be able to make smalltalk in a bar if they took it slow and used a lot of hand gestures.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#88

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

hkmurakami wrote: post #2

>But if a child grows up speaking that second language — Korean, say — with cousins and grandparents, attending a “Saturday School” that emphasizes the language and the culture, listening to music and even reading books in that language, and visits Korea along the way, that child will end up with a much stronger sense of the language. Did this from Kindergarten through 10th grade. "Saturday School" was a full program…

>A child who is learning two languages will have a smaller vocabulary in each than a child who is only learning one; there are only so many hours in the day, and you’re either hearing English or Spanish,” Dr. Hoff

I'd like to see more data on this as I don't think it's necessarily true. One thing I've noticed about bilingual people is that they are more expressive... creative in the words and turns of phrases they use.

Also, I'd say people from Iceland have a larger vocabulary and greater command of the English language than the average home grown American. I remember asking a lady "Does everyone here speak English so well" She responded "Of course" with an expression of mild disgust that made me feel like a dunce

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#89

Post by jayhuang »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #86
jayhuang wrote: post #84

The easiest way to learn a language is simply to put a child in that environment, an environment where they have no other option but to learn. Granted, it's can be immensely stressful, but having been in a similar situation, I can attest that it works. I grew up in Canada my whole life, but was taken to Taiwan towards the end of my elementary years and enrolled in the normal school system there without so much as kno…

I read your comment and assumed you had no exposure to Mandarin before moving to Taiwan. Then I saw your username and am now assuming you did. But I could be wrong :) I'm curious to know how early you were exposed to hearing Mandarin sounds (from birth?) and whether you spoke Mandarin at all with your family before you moved to Taiwan. I ask because one of the toughest things getting started for many foreigners learn…

I'm actually of mixed origin (half Caucasian/Asian) (:

I was born in Taiwan, so I assume the exposure was there, at least from the staff at the clinic if not anything else. That said, my first language was English as we came to Canada immediately after my birth. English was the language at home, and while I had a few Asian classmates, all of us only spoke English, and there weren't many immigrants from Asia (mostly Taiwan/Hong Kong) at all. So despite exposure at birth, hearing Mandarin for me at the time was much like hearing someone speak Spanish or Russian now.

In fact, I had no interest in relocating to Taiwan and losing contact with my friends. I'd be lying if I said it was not hell; the school administration strongly suggested I be put in kindergarten so I could learn the language from the beginning just like the locals, but my mother insisted I be put in 5th grade, where I belonged. It was a major hit to my ego, to go from top of the class throughout my young life, to a bottom feeder. It was also a culture shock to many kids to see someone "white", so bullying was a huge part of my life there, but I digress.

Being forced into an environment like that is incredibly stressful, but I can't say it doesn't work. I'd say it took about 6 or 7 months before I was consistently not the bottom performer in class, and another year or so till I was consistently top 3.

So while there was technically some exposure, and probably some learning going on in my infant brain, none of it was apparent to me.

Re: Raising a Truly Bilingual Child

#90

Post by rak00n »

grecy wrote: post #41
hueving wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think you have to be insane to not travel. The learning opportunities it presents are unparalleled. It depends on what you mean by 'travel'. I think spending anything less than a month in a place just makes it more like a visit to a theme park than anything enlightening.

I agree wholeheartedly! That's why I spent 2 years driving from Alaska to Argentina, learning Spanish as I went, and am now spending two years driving right around Africa, learning French and Swahili as I make my way around! I have learned more in the last 12 months of my life in West Africa than I did in the 34 years that came before...

If you don't mind me asking, what did you learn?
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