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Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

openbazaar.org

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Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#41

Post by sillysaurus3 »

jstanley wrote: post #35
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not the only one. These services have destroyed peoples' lives by providing them easy access to coke, meth, and heroin. Contrary to opinion, the vast majority of these people would not have found those drugs in the streets. There are no easy solutions here, but it's false to claim that these services are inherently better than what came before. They may make it safer to acquire the drugs, but they also make it…

OpenBazaar isn't a darknet market. It's a decentralised peer-to-peer market.

If people are getting crack from it, does it matter what type of market it is? People are saying this is where the drug trade might migrate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828864

I think it's scary that (a) these markets are here to stay, and (b) anyone with a computer and the most basic technology skills will be able to get any hard drug they can imagine delivered right to their doorstep.

Again, there's nothing to be done, really. That's just the way the world is now. But it's unfortunate.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#42

Post by jstanley »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #30
contingencies wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://www.openbazaar.org/about/ They founded a company, OB1, with a $1 million venture capital investment from Union Square Ventures and Andreessen Horowitz. [...] OB1 received a second round of investment for $3 million in the fall of 2016. OK, so just to clarify, this is a for-profit project produced by a central party with no stated plan for monetization. That is IMHO dubious. Their website http://o…

Sometimes VCs fund things they want to exist independently of whether they'll make a profit. $4M is spare change for a fund. I'm not sure that's the case here, but "no obvious way to make money" isn't exclusionary when it comes to the VC funding model.

An added bonus is that once the software is written, it can continue to work without the involvement of OB1, even if they run out of money and disappear, and even if they turn rogue and start trying to extract fees from every transaction.

It's an open source, decentralised, peer-to-peer system. As long as the peers want to keep using it, they can keep using it.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#43

Post by thomastjeffery »

matthewbauer wrote: post #26

Am I the only one here that gets a little terrified by this kind of thing? I mean I'm fine if they're just selling recreational drugs. But, we all know that there are much worse things people will be selling on these crypto markets than just plain old LSD and marijuana. Can we find a way to help law enforcement police at the very least the really, really bad stuff?

> Can we find a way to help law enforcement police at the very least the really, really bad stuff?

Law enforcement was designed to protect people (or their property) from the actions of other people, not themselves.

Law enforcement is fundamentally incapable of protecting people from themselves. That is why the "war on drugs" has been so ineffective.

The most effective method to stop the drug (opioid, etc.) epidemic is treatment and education, not law enforcement.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#44

Post by sillysaurus3 »

jstanley wrote: post #40
vectorpush wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who buy drugs "in the streets" generally aren't versed in how to acquire and manage cryptocurrency. Most people buying drugs have a personal relationship with a dealer and don't do transactions "in the streets". Additionally, actually acquiring cryptocurrency requires a bank account in good standing and a ton of invasive KYC paperwork which will raise suspicions and alienate "street buyers". Finally, in my per…

> Additionally, actually acquiring cryptocurrency requires a bank account in good standing and a ton of invasive KYC paperwork which will raise suspicions and alienate "street buyers". This is false. You can acquire cryptocurrency just as easily as you can acquire cash: sell things for it, exchange currency with friends, exchange currency with people you find on LocalBitcoins, steal it, run a business taking payment…

There are even bitcoin ATMs that make it trivial.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#45

Post by jstanley »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
jstanley wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenBazaar isn't a darknet market. It's a decentralised peer-to-peer market.

If people are getting crack from it, does it matter what type of market it is? People are saying this is where the drug trade might migrate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828864 I think it's scary that (a) these markets are here to stay, and (b) anyone with a computer and the most basic technology skills will be able to get any hard drug they can imagine delivered right to their doorstep. Again, there's noth…

Firstly, there are absolutely no illegal drugs currently being sold on OpenBazaar. It's almost exclusively novelty items at the moment.

Secondly, if Alice wants to sell crack, and Bob wants to buy it, I don't see why you or I or anybody else has the right to stand in the middle and say that's not allowed.

I accept that you think it's not good for Alice and Bob to be able to transact however they like, but you must accept that lots of people do not agree.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#47

Post by mulmen »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #43
matthewbauer wrote: post #26

Am I the only one here that gets a little terrified by this kind of thing? I mean I'm fine if they're just selling recreational drugs. But, we all know that there are much worse things people will be selling on these crypto markets than just plain old LSD and marijuana. Can we find a way to help law enforcement police at the very least the really, really bad stuff?

> Can we find a way to help law enforcement police at the very least the really, really bad stuff? Law enforcement was designed to protect people (or their property) from the actions of other people , not themselves . Law enforcement is fundamentally incapable of protecting people from themselves. That is why the "war on drugs" has been so ineffective. The most effective method to stop the drug (opioid, etc.) epidemi…

I have never considered the failure of the war on drugs from this perspective, thanks for sharing that.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#48

Post by ddon »

avaer wrote: post #4

> How are there no fees and restrictions? _Someone_ is paying the TX fees. Who? It can't be a single party, especially the developers, without betraying the decentralization. > Pay with 50+ cryptocurrencies on OpenBazaar: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Zcash, Dash, etc. Seller receives payment in Bitcoin How does this work without a middleman or central party?

TX fees are paid to miners.

Currency conversions are probably done using ShapeShift https://shapeshift.io/

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#49

Post by sillysaurus3 »

jstanley wrote: post #45
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are getting crack from it, does it matter what type of market it is? People are saying this is where the drug trade might migrate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828864 I think it's scary that (a) these markets are here to stay, and (b) anyone with a computer and the most basic technology skills will be able to get any hard drug they can imagine delivered right to their doorstep. Again, there's noth…

Firstly, there are absolutely no illegal drugs currently being sold on OpenBazaar. It's almost exclusively novelty items at the moment. Secondly, if Alice wants to sell crack, and Bob wants to buy it, I don't see why you or I or anybody else has the right to stand in the middle and say that's not allowed. I accept that you think it's not good for Alice and Bob to be able to transact however they like, but you must ac…

No one is arguing that Alice and Bob should be prevented from engaging in good ol' American trade.

We're arguing that when drugs are ubiquitous -- as easy to access as pushing a button -- you'll spawn far more addicts than would have otherwise been created.

When an addict's life is destroyed by these horrific tools of pleasure we've created, are they going to take solace in the fact that they were able to use technology to enable their habit?

People become addicts for many reasons. One of the main ways is by being at a party among friends. No one expects to be addicted to this stuff, so they try a bit.

In the old days, they had one option: Get more from their friend, which may not work forever. In modern times, they can get as much as they want from the darknet markets. Bitcoin ATMs make it trivial, too. You don't even need to be vetted by Coinbase.

It's not just theoretical. People have witnessed the markets causing this.

Re: Open Bazaar – decentralized Bitcoin marketplace

#50

Post by pelasaco »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #43
matthewbauer wrote: post #26

Am I the only one here that gets a little terrified by this kind of thing? I mean I'm fine if they're just selling recreational drugs. But, we all know that there are much worse things people will be selling on these crypto markets than just plain old LSD and marijuana. Can we find a way to help law enforcement police at the very least the really, really bad stuff?

> Can we find a way to help law enforcement police at the very least the really, really bad stuff? Law enforcement was designed to protect people (or their property) from the actions of other people , not themselves . Law enforcement is fundamentally incapable of protecting people from themselves. That is why the "war on drugs" has been so ineffective. The most effective method to stop the drug (opioid, etc.) epidemi…

The best way to fight the drug cartel and crime related with drugs is with law enforcement. The vast majority of victims aren't drug users.
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