Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

mashable.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 169 posts

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#131

Post by hnbroseph »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #102
HillaryBriss wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> separatism ... which should be a right of any group wait. how would that work? seriously. would that apply to Texans and Californians who want to secede from the US? what about: * a sect of highly conservative polygamists in the American West? * the Michigan Militia? * extreme American Communist party members? * David Koresh followers? * a population of immigrants from country X who now live in country Y? * ethnic…

> "wait. how would that work? seriously" Answer: "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to red…

was the uk acquisition of northern ireland legit - even though they 'bussed in' a bunch of brits to vote for it?

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#132

Post by hnbroseph »

specializeded wrote: post #106
paradite wrote: post #94

Same intention, different approaches, move on to more interesting topics. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14823596

Always one for facile comparisons between China and developed entities aren’t we paradite? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14763085 Your response to me back then seemed in good faith, if a bit naive. This continued trend of blatant propagandizing is a bit worrying though. Perhaps change it up so your work isn’t immediately recognizable? Even sounding the least bit neutral would probably be enough to blend in.

'my propaganda is better than your propaganda'

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#133

Post by hnbroseph »

astebbin wrote: post #95
kijin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: Forced installation of highly visible spyware can be better in the sense that it makes people acutely aware of the fact that they're being spied on. From now on, separatists in Xinjiang will be reluctant to exchange their ideas on their phones and try to find other ways to communicate or circumvent the spyware. For example, someone might come up with a cracked version of the spyware that doesn't act…

I think forced, public smartphone surveillance is absolutely worse than secret surveillance, in two ways. First, it has a strong chilling effect on free speech and free thought. In a country where the rule of law is not well-established, you can never be sure what the local officials consider "bad" speech. As a result, you keep your mouth shut more often, just in case. This takes a psychological toll on everyone surv…

a strong chilling effect is free speech leading to everyone you know 'disappearing'.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#134

Post by hnbroseph »

Kenji wrote: post #16
buttcake wrote: post #10

Wow, those chinese surely are totalitarian in the way they approach surveillance technology aren't they ? Good thing we have nothing like that. Only just closed hardware with closed or with some parts open complicated software mostly made by a few corporations which tend to and have in fact in past coopoerated with governments without even thinking about their customers.

You're doing liberty and democracy a disservice with your whataboutism. It's one thing to suspect your government of sneakily compromising hardware, another to receive official letters to install a surveillance app or be detained. Of course both are despicable, but they are not in the same league. EDIT: I'm surprised about how many people jump to the defense of the Chinese government here on HN. Seems in stark contra…

probably because more people are exhausted by the neocon/neolib 'dirty commie' attitude.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#135

Post by [deleted] »

intopieces wrote: post #129
virtuabhi wrote: post #58

The most weird news I have heard from Xinjiang is when Chinese authorities forced Muslims to dance on streets - https://tribune.com.pk/story/871879/suppressing-religious-fr...

There are so many errors in this article in the first few paragraphs that I have trouble believing any of it, even if the story itself is believable from what I know of Chinese religious oppression. First, Xinjiang is in the west, not east. Second, Uyghurs in China do not speak Turkish. They speak Uighur, a Turkic language, but its orthography is Arabic and forced Chinese. It looks nothing like Turkish, which uses a…

[deleted]

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#136

Post by jbmorgado »

dionian wrote: post #93
nunobrito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islamic extremism is deeply connected to separatism. That's what the "Islamic State" is all about. You can surely be critical of others, your own government does comparably worse to the same minority without even letting ordinary people know. That is hypocrisy.

"Islamic extremism" is a nebulous category that can be ascribed to ANY socio-political unrest of peoples who happen to live in a predominantly muslim area. What do they call extremism in other areas with deep socioeconomic problems? Non-islamic extremism?

> "What do they call extremism in other areas with deep socioeconomic problems? Non-islamic extremism?"

Well, when members of another ideology also start stabbing people in our streets and running down trucks into the middle of gatherings in order to kill as much civilians as possible, and when they start exploding themselves amongst our children or putting bombs in our metro stations, I'm absolutely sure we will find a name for them.

So far, thankfully, we really didn't had the need for that.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#137

Post by libeclipse »

logicchains wrote: post #87
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read the headline, I immediately thought Xinjiang, because that is where they have the greatest concentration of Muslims and where they have had separatism issues. And then the first sentence starts with "China has ramped up surveillance measures in Xinjiang". So I don't consider the headline misleading at all. News sites necessarily have to use short titles. The lack of an exhaustive title shouldn't be critic…

I meant the headline of the Hacker News post, not the headline of the article. The original Hacker News post headline was "China forces its Muslim minority to install spyware on their phones", which is incorrect in the sense it implies that China is forcing all its Muslims to install spyway on their phones.

That's the same as the headline on the article itself.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#138

Post by hnbroseph »

cronjobma wrote: post #59

Unfortunately, this isn't any different from what a variety of countries have been doing to muslims for the last 200 years. If your source of information is mainly the Media, I suggest you spend an afternoon browsing through Wikipedia and compare the numbers. The amount of terrorist attacks by 'so called muslims' (let's just say they are muslim for a moment) is minuscule by the amount of muslims killed by the west. E…

reads like isis recruitment.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#139

Post by hnbroseph »

goodplay wrote: post #118
bnolsen wrote: post #113

Considering the "muslim minorities" went on a wild random stabbing campaign and randomly injected people with some sort of syringes in public places, AND entry into restaurands and stores all include metal detectors and xray scanners and armed troops are standing everywhere, I'd say there's already been a war declared by the minorities against the chinese there. Just in case you are wondering my wife has family who l…

>Considering the "muslim minorities" went on a wild random stabbing campaign and randomly injected people with some sort of syringes in public places[...] What percentage of those "muslim minorities" actually took part in those acts? Does that percentage justify treating everyone who qualifies as "muslim minorities" like a criminal? > The muslims have been on a non stop jihad since its inception and this is just a co…

the majority of nazis were reasonable people. why treat nazis as a whole so poorly?

the issue isn't 'percentage' of active agents, or 'supportive' agents. it's about ideologies with structural support for violence and oppression.

> That's not remotely true

how do you think islam spread historically? peaceful dialog over tea?

a rather significant contribution was conquest and the 'education' of other people's children in the 'islamic worldview'.

Post reply on HN