China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones • Hacker News Board

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#111

Post by specializeded » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #108

specializeded wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always one for facile comparisons between China and developed entities aren’t we paradite? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14763085 Your response to me back then seemed in good faith, if a bit naive. This continued trend of blatant propagandizing is a bit worrying though. Perhaps change it up so your work isn’t immediately recognizable? Even sounding the least bit neutral would probably be enough to blend in.

> Always one for facile comparisons between China and developed entities aren’t we paradite? Why are you attacking him rather than the argument? > Perhaps change it up so your work isn’t immediately recognizable? Even sounding the least bit neutral would probably be enough to blend in. You don't sound very impartial either.

Because the argument is already being attacked, and I’ve already attacked their previous ones with no change on their part

I’m obviously not attempting to be impartial considering I’ve directly called them out by name, but I’m glad you’ve noticed the tone of my comment awkarddaturtle.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#112

Post by specializeded » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

paradite wrote: post #107

specializeded wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always one for facile comparisons between China and developed entities aren’t we paradite? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14763085 Your response to me back then seemed in good faith, if a bit naive. This continued trend of blatant propagandizing is a bit worrying though. Perhaps change it up so your work isn’t immediately recognizable? Even sounding the least bit neutral would probably be enough to blend in.

Let's focus on meaningful and substantial discussions instead of derailing into personal attacks. Happy to reply if you have anything interesting to say.

I’d be happy to attack if you had anything worthwhile to dispute.

Consider my criticism and one day you might.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#113

Post by bnolsen » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

Considering the "muslim minorities" went on a wild random stabbing campaign and randomly injected people with some sort of syringes in public places, AND entry into restaurands and stores all include metal detectors and xray scanners and armed troops are standing everywhere, I'd say there's already been a war declared by the minorities against the chinese there. Just in case you are wondering my wife has family who live in different parts of xinjiang. A couple of summers ago during the worst of it before all the above equipment was deployed many people were afraid to go outside their homes.

I was talking with my wife this morning and other parts of western china (not xinjiang) have some issues with radicalization. The muslims have been on a non stop jihad since its inception and this is just a continuation of it. We could also go over what's been happening in the russian republics (like kazakhstan) which also have been feeling the effects of "invasion".

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#114

Post by kronos29296 » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

excalibur wrote: post #91

toast0 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very competent. It identifies some people trafficking in prohibited files, and it also identifies the true danger to the state -- people willing to circumvent their rules; when you pick up someone for bad files, and he (or his phone) says his buddy sent them, but his buddy's friend didn't report in, his buddy is eligible for a lot more trouble.

> MD5 > This is very competent.

Real men use CRC.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#115

Post by kronos29296 » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

Somehow china is becoming Ingsoc from 1984. Control people, censorship, Dictator state with no prospect of change, monitoring people, big brother is watching you type stuff among other things.

Just a week ago I read about traffic warnings personalised by face recognition. Now this. Soon China might become Ingsoc with Minlove and Double think and what not.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#116

Post by kronos29296 » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

autopanopticon wrote: post #4

pyed wrote: post #2

Disgusting

Not to mention embarassingly ineffective.

Effectiveness has nothing to do with it. It is about sending a message and very strong one at that.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#117

Post by kronos29296 » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

pacificera wrote: post #33

At least the citizens know they are being surveiled.

Please read 1984 by George Orwell. Everybody knows its happening but nobody can stop it.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#118

Post by goodplay » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

bnolsen wrote: post #113

Considering the "muslim minorities" went on a wild random stabbing campaign and randomly injected people with some sort of syringes in public places, AND entry into restaurands and stores all include metal detectors and xray scanners and armed troops are standing everywhere, I'd say there's already been a war declared by the minorities against the chinese there. Just in case you are wondering my wife has family who l…

>Considering the "muslim minorities" went on a wild random stabbing campaign and randomly injected people with some sort of syringes in public places[...]

What percentage of those "muslim minorities" actually took part in those acts? Does that percentage justify treating everyone who qualifies as "muslim minorities" like a criminal?

> The muslims have been on a non stop jihad since its inception and this is just a continuation of it.

That's not remotely true despite what extremists on both sides like to delude themselves into believing.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#119

Post by blincoln » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

CyberDildonics wrote: post #98

zython wrote: post #5

>The app reportedly scans for the MD5 digital signatures of media files in the phone, and matches them to a stored database of offending files classified by the government as illegal "terrorist-related" media. What a dumb way to scan for "illegal" content, considering the goverment already controls their portion of the internet. So instead of monitoring who is accessing what they decide to compare checksums of files…

Not to mention that it should be entirely possible to find offending files and create files that have MD5 collisions with them, causing false positives.

There is no publicly-known "preimage" attack against MD5. One would need to craft an offensive file and a non-offensive file themselves so that the hashes would match, then somehow get the offensive file into the official database.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#120

Post by kijin » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

astebbin wrote: post #95

kijin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: Forced installation of highly visible spyware can be better in the sense that it makes people acutely aware of the fact that they're being spied on. From now on, separatists in Xinjiang will be reluctant to exchange their ideas on their phones and try to find other ways to communicate or circumvent the spyware. For example, someone might come up with a cracked version of the spyware that doesn't act…

I think forced, public smartphone surveillance is absolutely worse than secret surveillance, in two ways. First, it has a strong chilling effect on free speech and free thought. In a country where the rule of law is not well-established, you can never be sure what the local officials consider "bad" speech. As a result, you keep your mouth shut more often, just in case. This takes a psychological toll on everyone surv…

The premise is that everyone is already being surveilled in ways that Western three-letter agencies can only dream of, and that this Android app only makes this fact more obvious without making a significant contribution to the effectiveness of the surveillance regime as a whole.

It would be analogous to a big red icon on your home screen with Snowden's face on it. You already know everything he told the world about the American government's recent behavior. The icon is just a reminder that the country you live in does unethical things, and in the case of China, a helluva lot more unethical things.

Yes, it will have a chilling effect -- but only because the truth is chilling and this app reminds people of that truth. In America, a lot of what we say on these forums regarding our three-letter agencies is speculation. In China, pervasive surveillance and censorship is a reality, not just speculation. And I'm not sure whether it would be a good thing or a bad thing for the Chinese people to become more aware of this reality in their daily lives. I'm not saying this to pick an argument. I really don't know what to think of it.