China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones • Hacker News Board

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#21

Post by em3rgent0rdr » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 1:52 PM UTC

nunobrito wrote: post #11

Its their country and their laws, trying to solve the problem of Islamic extremism on their own. In western countries, you get detained for years in Guantanamo under torture without knowing for sure why you got arrested. Young girls get married as early as 12 to creepy old dudes and there is no need to ask for installing spyware because the phones and communications are already tapped by default. Anyone criticizing C…

> "Islamic extremism"

In Xinjiang region, the concern is more about separatism, which is not terrorism, and which should be a right of any group.

> "Anyone criticizing China while permitting their own country to do worse is an hypocrite"

One can be critical of their own government while still being critical of others. Even in US, ordinary people don't have much control over the government, in particular over the security state, other than complaining, so "permitting" abuses shouldn't be considered hypocritical.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#22

Post by sa-mao » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

mrkrabo wrote: post #6

This is interesting. It goes to show how an autoritarian government can fix some problems in a more effective way. You can remove terrorist propaganda from YouTube, but how do you stop the spread of those videos in private platforms or messaging applications? And even if the first version of this spying app only checks for md5 sums, which is arguably useless, I'm sure they're working on something more effective.

You know how to fix the problem more effectively? try to find the root cause and fix it. It's simple and it works.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#23

Post by logicchains » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

The headline is slightly misleading. It's not all muslim minorities in China: it's muslims living in the separatist Xinjiang region, who are ethnically Turkic. There are a non-insignificant number of muslims outside of Xinjiang, such as the Huizu, which are essentially Han Chinese muslims. Lots of the "terrorism" originating from Xinjiang has separatist rather than just religious motivations; I wouldn't be surprised if this is why the Chinese government is so keen to crack down.

*Edit: the headline was originally 'China forces its Muslim minority to install spyware on their phones'

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#24

Post by nkassis » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 1:57 PM UTC

nunobrito wrote: post #11

Its their country and their laws, trying to solve the problem of Islamic extremism on their own. In western countries, you get detained for years in Guantanamo under torture without knowing for sure why you got arrested. Young girls get married as early as 12 to creepy old dudes and there is no need to ask for installing spyware because the phones and communications are already tapped by default. Anyone criticizing C…

"Anyone criticizing China while permitting their own country to do worse is an hypocrite."

Ridiculous statement. "Permitting", like it's my choice? You can live in a country and disagree with some of what it does. Even better in democracies where you can do so publicly and have some form of impact through voting.

Also happy I'm able to discuss this topic online without this post getting blocked/deleted and facing possible repercussions.

"Still waiting for the outrage about the mass surveillance from Amazon Echo, Google and others" Yes like that debate doesn't exist and no one talks about it?

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#25

Post by mrkrabo » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 2:00 PM UTC

sa-mao wrote: post #22

mrkrabo wrote: post #6

This is interesting. It goes to show how an autoritarian government can fix some problems in a more effective way. You can remove terrorist propaganda from YouTube, but how do you stop the spread of those videos in private platforms or messaging applications? And even if the first version of this spying app only checks for md5 sums, which is arguably useless, I'm sure they're working on something more effective.

You know how to fix the problem more effectively? try to find the root cause and fix it. It's simple and it works.

The west has been trying to do that for decades. Things just get worse and worse. What do you propose?

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#26

Post by Dylan16807 » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #16

buttcake wrote: post #10

Wow, those chinese surely are totalitarian in the way they approach surveillance technology aren't they ? Good thing we have nothing like that. Only just closed hardware with closed or with some parts open complicated software mostly made by a few corporations which tend to and have in fact in past coopoerated with governments without even thinking about their customers.

You're doing liberty and democracy a disservice with your whataboutism. It's one thing to suspect your government of sneakily compromising hardware, another to receive official letters to install a surveillance app or be detained. Of course both are despicable, but they are not in the same league. EDIT: I'm surprised about how many people jump to the defense of the Chinese government here on HN. Seems in stark contra…

> It's one thing to suspect your government of sneakily compromising hardware, another to receive official letters to install a surveillance app or be detained.

Suspicions are of course lesser.

But sneakily compromising hardware is worse then officially compromising hardware!

> defense

That comment ain't a defense.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#27

Post by mustbesatire » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #23

The headline is slightly misleading. It's not all muslim minorities in China: it's muslims living in the separatist Xinjiang region, who are ethnically Turkic. There are a non-insignificant number of muslims outside of Xinjiang, such as the Huizu, which are essentially Han Chinese muslims. Lots of the "terrorism" originating from Xinjiang has separatist rather than just religious motivations; I wouldn't be surprised…

Yeah and I'm sure not all blacks were slaves now right?

Not all jews were genocided right?

Cracking down on 'terrorism' is inhumane and disgusting.

What you really mean is cracking down on anything that isn't cis-white-hetero-normative Christianity.

This. Is. Trumps. Future.

RESIST

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#28

Post by Insanity » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

sa-mao wrote: post #22

mrkrabo wrote: post #6

This is interesting. It goes to show how an autoritarian government can fix some problems in a more effective way. You can remove terrorist propaganda from YouTube, but how do you stop the spread of those videos in private platforms or messaging applications? And even if the first version of this spying app only checks for md5 sums, which is arguably useless, I'm sure they're working on something more effective.

You know how to fix the problem more effectively? try to find the root cause and fix it. It's simple and it works.

I don't believe it is simple to fix. But you are right of course, the root cause is what you should aim for.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#29

Post by em3rgent0rdr » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #23

The headline is slightly misleading. It's not all muslim minorities in China: it's muslims living in the separatist Xinjiang region, who are ethnically Turkic. There are a non-insignificant number of muslims outside of Xinjiang, such as the Huizu, which are essentially Han Chinese muslims. Lots of the "terrorism" originating from Xinjiang has separatist rather than just religious motivations; I wouldn't be surprised…

When I read the headline, I immediately thought Xinjiang, because that is where they have the greatest concentration of Muslims and where they have had separatism issues.

And then the first sentence starts with "China has ramped up surveillance measures in Xinjiang".

So I don't consider the headline misleading at all. News sites necessarily have to use short titles. The lack of an exhaustive title shouldn't be criticized unless it is clearly clickbait or contradicts facts or the article.

Re: China forces one of its Muslim minorities to install spyware on their phones

#30

Post by mustbesatire » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #21

nunobrito wrote: post #11

Its their country and their laws, trying to solve the problem of Islamic extremism on their own. In western countries, you get detained for years in Guantanamo under torture without knowing for sure why you got arrested. Young girls get married as early as 12 to creepy old dudes and there is no need to ask for installing spyware because the phones and communications are already tapped by default. Anyone criticizing C…

> "Islamic extremism" In Xinjiang region, the concern is more about separatism , which is not terrorism, and which should be a right of any group. > "Anyone criticizing China while permitting their own country to do worse is an hypocrite" One can be critical of their own government while still being critical of others. Even in US, ordinary people don't have much control over the government, in particular over the sec…

>In Xinjiang region, the concern is more about separatism, which is not terrorism, and which should be a right of any group.

So much this. This is about bigoted Christian males(likely shadow-whites behind the Chinese Christian leadership), trying to force their religious dogma on the muslim population.