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We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

piratpartiet.se

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Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#11

Post by rick888 »

cabalamat wrote: post #9
henning wrote: post #2

That talk about freedom of speech is a nice way of defending large-scale copyright infringement.

> That talk about freedom of speech is a nice way of defending large-scale copyright infringement. Copyright laws exist to restrict people's rights to free speech and freedom of communication. And in the age of the internet, business models based on scarcity of copies are obsolete; they cannot be propped up except by restricting the utility of the internet. The copyright cartels (RIAA, MPAA, etc) want every computer…

"Copyright laws exist to restrict people's rights to free speech and freedom of communication. And in the age of the internet, business models based on scarcity of copies are obsolete; they cannot be propped up except by restricting the utility of the internet."

Businesses were never based on scarcity of copies, but scarcity of creation. The latest version of Photoshop can't be created with once click of a button. It takes many programmers and designers thousands of hours. Copying the bits is the easy part. When anybody can create (not copy) photoshop in their homes, I will agree with you.

"The copyright cartels (RIAA, MPAA, etc) want every computer to be a DRM-crippled locked down device like the iPad, and for themselves to have the power to kick anyone off the internet by merely accusing them of copyright infringement. If you don't want that future, it's time to support the Pirate Party."

There was an app designer awhile back that posted his sales numbers on reddit. He had 80% more sales on the iPhone. The reason? Android made it very easy for people to download his app and share it (and not pay) (he had the ability to see the people that pirated his app).

I wonder what would happen if I came out with the piratebay2 and claimed I was thepiraebay.com. If I made it look like the piratebay owned the site and I hurt their reputation in some way through disparaging comments. Would they (thepiratebay) come after me? After all, I'm not "stealing" anything. It should be fine, right?

My problem is that it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Thepiratebay supporters want the ability to freely download commercial applications with no repercussions. I don't agree with this. If you don't want to buy a commercial application, that's fine (it's your right). But you shouldn't be able to download it for free without the owner's permission.

I also don't think many people realize what a world with no copyright would be like. Once a company got big enough, they would easily be able to take ideas from smaller companies just starting out. The smaller companies would have little legal recourse or enough resources to defend themselves.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#12

Post by rick888 »

acon wrote: post #8

This really makes me question my vote for the pirate party. I really like them, as a voice for freedom on the internet and beyond, and would really like them to lay of the pirate propaganda and start preaching the gospel of freedom instead. Perhaps I bet on the wrong horse all along. Unfortunately I don't know what the right horse is.

"This really makes me question my vote for the pirate party. I really like them, as a voice for freedom on the internet and beyond, and would really like them to lay of the pirate propaganda and start preaching the gospel of freedom instead. Perhaps I bet on the wrong horse all along. Unfortunately I don't know what the right horse is."

I would vote for them as long as "freedom" doesn't mean the ability of anyone to download/share commercial software, music, and movies with no legal consequences.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#13

Post by dkberktas »

rick888 wrote: post #11
cabalamat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That talk about freedom of speech is a nice way of defending large-scale copyright infringement. Copyright laws exist to restrict people's rights to free speech and freedom of communication. And in the age of the internet, business models based on scarcity of copies are obsolete; they cannot be propped up except by restricting the utility of the internet. The copyright cartels (RIAA, MPAA, etc) want every computer…

"Copyright laws exist to restrict people's rights to free speech and freedom of communication. And in the age of the internet, business models based on scarcity of copies are obsolete; they cannot be propped up except by restricting the utility of the internet." Businesses were never based on scarcity of copies, but scarcity of creation. The latest version of Photoshop can't be created with once click of a button. It…

Maybe your app developer should seek other ways of getting money out of his app. Not for this specific case but "in app purchase" and ads in apps are two great ways of earning money.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#14

Post by rick888 »

dkberktas wrote: post #13
rick888 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Copyright laws exist to restrict people's rights to free speech and freedom of communication. And in the age of the internet, business models based on scarcity of copies are obsolete; they cannot be propped up except by restricting the utility of the internet." Businesses were never based on scarcity of copies, but scarcity of creation. The latest version of Photoshop can't be created with once click of a button. It…

Maybe your app developer should seek other ways of getting money out of his app. Not for this specific case but "in app purchase" and ads in apps are two great ways of earning money.

"Maybe your app developer should seek other ways of getting money out of his app. Not for this specific case but "in app purchase" and ads in apps are two great ways of earning money."

So instead of dealing with the actual problem (people pirating). He should just give it away for free with ads?

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#15

Post by rick888 »

tsally wrote: post #6
henning wrote: post #2

That talk about freedom of speech is a nice way of defending large-scale copyright infringement.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

"We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for torrent files. The onus is on the criminal, not those who provide tools which may or may not be used in a crime."

If I had a website setup exclusively for sharing valid credit card numbers (and yours was on my site), would you want my site taken down?

After all, the credit card number itself is just data (nothing is actually taken from the original owner when it is shared) and my site isn't actually doing charging anything to the cards.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#16

Post by dkberktas »

rick888 wrote: post #14
dkberktas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe your app developer should seek other ways of getting money out of his app. Not for this specific case but "in app purchase" and ads in apps are two great ways of earning money.

"Maybe your app developer should seek other ways of getting money out of his app. Not for this specific case but "in app purchase" and ads in apps are two great ways of earning money." So instead of dealing with the actual problem (people pirating). He should just give it away for free with ads?

Well, i don't see it as a problem. All I say is try to adapt to the current situation, don't try to impose rules on people so that your way of seeing things continue. If people prefer to watch movies at their home w/out paying for it, what the movie industry should do is to find other ways of making money, becuase bannign things is not going to work.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#17

Post by lkozma »

rick888 wrote: post #15
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

"We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for torrent files. The onus is on the criminal, not those who provide tools which may or may not be used in a crime." If I had a website setup exclusively for sharing valid credit card numbers…

But if someone takes money from your credit card then that amount is not there anymore, whereas if I download and watch a movie it does not diminish anyone's chance of watching it.

Now I might become less likely to pay for the movie after I downloaded it for free, but if that likelihood was zero already then where is the harm caused?

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#18

Post by alexro »

rick888 wrote: post #15
tsally wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you can't find copyright files to download via Google search. Otherwise it would be as bad as The Pirate Bay! Enabling someone to break the law doesn't make the enabler culpable. We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for…

"We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for torrent files. The onus is on the criminal, not those who provide tools which may or may not be used in a crime." If I had a website setup exclusively for sharing valid credit card numbers…

As someone who just cancelled a CC after 2 transactions done by scummers, I find your example silly. I'm responsible for keeping my CC with me and the bank is responsible for providing on-line security. If a CC info was stolen from a shop's database, and then shared on some website, it doesn't matter that you can take that website down. Just cancel the CC and let the numbers rest forever.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#19

Post by ptomato »

dkberktas wrote: post #13
rick888 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Copyright laws exist to restrict people's rights to free speech and freedom of communication. And in the age of the internet, business models based on scarcity of copies are obsolete; they cannot be propped up except by restricting the utility of the internet." Businesses were never based on scarcity of copies, but scarcity of creation. The latest version of Photoshop can't be created with once click of a button. It…

Maybe your app developer should seek other ways of getting money out of his app. Not for this specific case but "in app purchase" and ads in apps are two great ways of earning money.

Maybe you don't get to decide how other people distribute what they create.

Re: We will host The Pirate Bay inside the Swedish parliament

#20

Post by rick888 »

lkozma wrote: post #17
rick888 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We apply this standard to manufacturers of lock picks, crowbars, physical key-loggers, books detailing the security of computers, etc. I'm curious why you feel a different standard should apply to someone who provides hosting for torrent files. The onus is on the criminal, not those who provide tools which may or may not be used in a crime." If I had a website setup exclusively for sharing valid credit card numbers…

But if someone takes money from your credit card then that amount is not there anymore, whereas if I download and watch a movie it does not diminish anyone's chance of watching it. Now I might become less likely to pay for the movie after I downloaded it for free, but if that likelihood was zero already then where is the harm caused?

"But if someone takes money from your credit card then that amount is not there anymore, whereas if I download and watch a movie it does not diminish anyone's chance of watching it.

Now I might become less likely to pay for the movie after I downloaded it for free, but if that likelihood was zero already then where is the harm caused?"

We aren't talking about the act of charging money on the card (which technically, is still just a bunch of 1s and 0s being transferred from one place to another). We are talking about the act of sharing the card info (just like sharing torrents, my site isn't doing the illegal activity, only facilitating it)

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