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Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#41

Post by pawy »

jeeceebees wrote: post #39
pawy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"most creative endeavors often do involve CREATING many things" ; not generating them. You've "selected" something you liked. You are no artist and should not call your self like that. If you do, you will never inspire "simple" people. At least if you do it would become the MacDonald of art. Do nothing, sit and say to the bot if it fits you or not. You're even worse than a DJ. The DJ actually works his selection and…

By this logic no photographer is an artist either. They just 'selected' a composition they liked. They didn't work to create any of their subjects, just walked up and took a picture. Slowly coaxing a desired result out of a computer by painstakingly tweaking an algorithm over the course of hours or days doesn't sound like work to you? The computer wouldn't have just done it on its own if an artist didn't tell it what…

Alright, that is an argument I give right.

Still, I see the work putted as an art, not only the result.

What I mean is that tools that allow re-generation without someone putting he heart into it would not result in art.

Dropping 200 pics and having a new one is no art.

If you iterate your self on how these mechanics goes on and create something with it with control and skill then that looks more like it.

But then, if you drop out an algorithm that does that, handle it to users,

would their results be art ?

Tools and way are more important than result. How you use them and how you create something original from it is the art process.

I guess it really depends on how you use this.

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#42

Post by stevehiehn »

I heard a quote about automobiles: "When you remove the horse from the cart you no longer have a horse & buggy" I suspect if convincing music can be generated procedurally people will no longer put much value in a linear composition. Its possible music will become interactive via interfaces like AR and VR.

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#43

Post by stevehiehn »

pawy wrote: post #11

Art is not putting up data until it brings up something "cool". It's the expression of mind. Miyazaki has a clear expression about the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfxlgHBaxEU and I'm really deeply sadden that people doesn't get this before hand. Try expressing feelings and stop using that word that has absolutely nothing to do with machine learning. The very very very basic Idea of machine learning is at…

I'm deeply saddened that people think there even is a clear universal definition for the word Art.

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#44

Post by krapp »

circlefavshape wrote: post #3

I really don't understand the point of this. Do we need a computer to help us add to the vast store of music nobody ever listens to? Reminds me of Douglas Adams's electric monks

It will make sense when it's able to generate music in popular genres, gaming and commercials.

Entire creative industries will be automated away with this, in time.

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#46

Post by sdwisely »

pawy wrote: post #41
jeeceebees wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic no photographer is an artist either. They just 'selected' a composition they liked. They didn't work to create any of their subjects, just walked up and took a picture. Slowly coaxing a desired result out of a computer by painstakingly tweaking an algorithm over the course of hours or days doesn't sound like work to you? The computer wouldn't have just done it on its own if an artist didn't tell it what…

Alright, that is an argument I give right. Still, I see the work putted as an art, not only the result. What I mean is that tools that allow re-generation without someone putting he heart into it would not result in art. Dropping 200 pics and having a new one is no art. If you iterate your self on how these mechanics goes on and create something with it with control and skill then that looks more like it. But then, i…

>But then, if you drop out an algorithm that does that, handle it to users, would their results be art ?

in the same respect, did someone not create art in photoshop because they used some fractal noise?

I've had this conversation and thought about it a lot for what I'm doing and come to this conclusion.

art can be directed, it can be accidental, it can be both (every artist loves a happy accident), it can be because of a million iterations whether by hand or computer.

it's up to you, the viewer to decide if you think the end result is good art.

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#47

Post by hashmal »

pawy wrote: post #11

Art is not putting up data until it brings up something "cool". It's the expression of mind. Miyazaki has a clear expression about the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfxlgHBaxEU and I'm really deeply sadden that people doesn't get this before hand. Try expressing feelings and stop using that word that has absolutely nothing to do with machine learning. The very very very basic Idea of machine learning is at…

In a way I agree: machine learning should not (try to) replace human art.

However, I think it has its place if it's part of the artistic process. Many artists put the emphasis not on the end product, but on the process itself. We can perfectly imagine an artist creating an entire collection using AI, find something wicked in it and expose it as a criticism of our times. (sounds hipster yeah… I'm not an artist.)

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#48

Post by bluetwo »

kastnerkyle wrote: post #36
bluetwo wrote: post #29

A wide-ranging talk on computer generated art, music, stories, humor, etc. I liked listening to it, but am disappointed by the field's disregard for existing methods of structure. "We don't use rules".... well, rules have helped mankind progress forward for hundreds of thousands of years. Just because they don't easily transfer into your ML model doesn't mean they are useless. Maybe the model needs to learn some new…

There is a lot of interesting work going on in this area right now in the research community - using ML for things like program synthesis, meta-learning, and combining ideas from constraint satisfaction with ML approaches. The rules based approach has (as you mention) years of history, so people are currently exploring the green-ish fields of raw learning approaches with good success on tasks where rules based approa…

Thanks for the additional info.

Re: Making Music and Art Through Machine Learning

#49

Post by 6stringmerc »

dougeck wrote: post #15
6stringmerc wrote: post #2

Re: the latest Performance RNN, discussing their "best sounding" output. > Note that this isn’t a performance of an existing piece; the model is also choosing the notes to play, “composing” a performance directly. The performances generated by the model lack the overall coherence that one might expect from a piano composition; in musical jargon, it might sound like the model is “noodling”— playing without a long-term…

I've used the same analogy. Its unconditional and produces no coherent structure, but at least it captures some pianist-like timing and dynamics. Magenta is a github project ... please do something to help! :-)

Eh, asking a musician to write code is like asking a programmer to learn a scale on an accordion. Either you're going to see the failures in your own art, and be open to criticism, or ask for somebody to do it for you.

I'll put it thusly: As a broke-ass musician barely making ends meet, I'll be more than happy to contribute if Alphabet pays off what's left of the mortgage on my house.

Until then, I've only got the perspective that a project like this is trying to take food off my plate, money out of my pocket, and replace me. If you want my help, Son, you got to come better at me than with Altruism.

Otherwise, the best thing I can do to help is to say "This project is a heap of shit and your time is better spent elsewhere" without tinging it with too much condescension. Your child is brain damaged. Take it to Oregon.

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