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As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

latimes.com

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Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#71

Post by xienze »

andrewla wrote: post #25
avs733 wrote: post #10

They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.

> They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? From the article: > And native-born Americans aren’t interested in the job, even at wages that have soared at higher than average rates. > Not surprisingly, wages for crop production have climbed 13% from 2010 to 2015 — a higher rate than the state average, according to a Los Angeles Times analysis of Labor Department data. > Growers who…

> And native-born Americans aren’t interested in the job, even at wages that have soared at higher than average rates.

Conspicuously absent in every single article claiming that Americans "aren't interested" in farm work is exactly what constitutes "higher than average rates". You _will_ find Americans interested in this work at some rate, but it's going to be higher than what you think it "should" be. In a country where a $15 minimum wage is expected for relatively comfy fast food work, back-breaking outdoor labor is going to be significantly more expensive. But you will find takers at some price.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#72

Post by scottLobster »

evgen wrote: post #52
Retric wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed is significantly less important than your suggesting. The hard parts are not damaging the crop and most importantly not doing the wrong thing.

I would have to disagree on that point; speed is vitally important for equipment like this. Speed and accuracy determine how many of these machines you would need during the short window of peak ripeness. Speed determines how long it will take to get a return (if any) on the capital investment required for the machine. There is a reason that agricultural equipment is so large and most of it has to do with the short w…

Wouldn't the endurance of the machines play into that though? I imagine not needing breaks/sleep might offset the relatively slow picking speed, depending on how fast they recharge/discharge.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#73

Post by corysama »

bcoates wrote: post #44
mcone wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could pay more. But since what we're really talking about here is the market, the real question is who would pick up the added costs. Are consumers willing to pay the "real cost" of food grown by employees who are paid a fair wage?

Ag workers are not a huge cost driver to the retail price of food, so it'll be fine.

Does anyone have numbers on this? What I hear anecdotally is that American farmers are having a hard time because of cheaper produce from South America. Produce consumers are extremely price sensitive. If people can save 5c buying imported produce, they will.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#74

Post by frabbit »

jessaustin wrote: post #68
frabbit wrote: post #37

That’s because immigrant farmworkers in California’s agricultural heartlands are getting older and not being replaced. As others have mentioned it's all to do with the wages that the fruit growers are willing to pay, and Driscoll's (mentioned in the article) have been at the center of controversy about their wages for some time for their practices in Mexico and elsewhere: https://boycott-driscolls.org/ The Union of I…

As has been confirmed in 95% of previous land reform efforts, farming is not "profiteering". When you take productive land from its owners and give it to the politically connected, you're left with unproductive land.

Surely it's 95.6897% ?

It would be a mistake to simply call this "land reform" and confuse it with (e.g. Zimbabwe) while ignoring positive examples (e.g. Ireland). It's a fundamentally different situation brought about by technological progress. The balance of benefits to society of having a risk-taking entrepreneur who is able to (often) produce a desired good and disperse some of the profit to employees is altered. A re-evaluation has become necessary. Ditto for many other industries.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#75

Post by mapmap »

LoonyBalloony wrote: post #67
avs733 wrote: post #10

They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.

Seems like society is doing everything it can to keep this trend going: http://i.imgur.com/Uc6kX8G.jpg

Is this correlated to the gold standard ending in the early seventies?

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#76

Post by aphextron »

bcoates wrote: post #46
aphextron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple with farming, unfortunately. Worker pay is necessarily based on individual productivity, which can only increase so much [0]. Margins are razor thin for producers to begin with. The vast majority of profits are captured by the manufacturing and distribution. This is why the IRS taxes farm workers and farm employers differently from any other kind of commercial activity. http://nfwm.org/education-…

Why should farm work be immune to cost disease when nothing else is?

>Why should farm work be immune to cost disease when nothing else is?

This is the heart of the matter. Humans have to eat. It's fundamentally different than any other market.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#77

Post by irrational »

Retric wrote: post #69
evgen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have to disagree on that point; speed is vitally important for equipment like this. Speed and accuracy determine how many of these machines you would need during the short window of peak ripeness. Speed determines how long it will take to get a return (if any) on the capital investment required for the machine. There is a reason that agricultural equipment is so large and most of it has to do with the short w…

It's a cost vs. speed trade off, if a machine can do the work of 2 people or 20 people is not the important bit. The important bit is if they can get more work done at lower costs. So, something that get's 1/4 as much work as a person done, but works unattended and only costs 1,000$ then that's a great investment.

But, if the crop has started to rot on the vine because the machine is only doing 1/4 the work, then doesn't the cost become meaningless? Plants are different than metal. A robot building a car can go slow and the metal will still be the same.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#78

Post by lovich »

andrewla wrote: post #25
avs733 wrote: post #10

They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? In a market driven economy...which companies want...employees have market power as well when their is a shortage.

> They could also, which is notably mentioned no where in the article, pay more? From the article: > And native-born Americans aren’t interested in the job, even at wages that have soared at higher than average rates. > Not surprisingly, wages for crop production have climbed 13% from 2010 to 2015 — a higher rate than the state average, according to a Los Angeles Times analysis of Labor Department data. > Growers who…

13% over 5 years isn't exactly what I'd call soaring. That barely beats out inflation over that same time frame.[1] Doing the quick math it looks like that beats inflation by [1]http://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/united-states/histor...

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#79

Post by noonespecial »

delbel wrote: post #63

Does anyone know of any groups or hacker like groups working on these types of problems? I own a small farm and for the life of me I cant find workers even at $25/hr. I have so far bought several tractors and implements and I am planning to semi-automate as much as possible. But that is not ready this year and I am basically by myself with a shovel... I would like to fully automate as much as possible, and I have zer…

I can't magic you up any workers but here's a hint:

You'd be astonished at how quickly and accurately a large air compressor with a small amount of water added to the flow can dig a shallow trench or small hole.

Re: As California’s labor shortage grows, farmers replace workers with robots

#80

Post by protonfish »

irrational wrote: post #77
Retric wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cost vs. speed trade off, if a machine can do the work of 2 people or 20 people is not the important bit. The important bit is if they can get more work done at lower costs. So, something that get's 1/4 as much work as a person done, but works unattended and only costs 1,000$ then that's a great investment.

But, if the crop has started to rot on the vine because the machine is only doing 1/4 the work, then doesn't the cost become meaningless? Plants are different than metal. A robot building a car can go slow and the metal will still be the same.

Then get 4 machines.
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