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A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

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Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#311
post #91

I think the fundamental problem here is an economic one. Make three assumptions: 1) most contracts worth implementing in Ethereum are fairly complex 2) even given great developers, bugs are inevitable in complex code 3) the budget of the contract-makers' security team MUST be smaller than that of the hackers You quickly see that if the chance of a bug is nonzero, "smart contracts" don't make economic sense. If you ha…

I'm not sure premise 1 is true. The most useful smart contracts so far are tokens and multisigs, and those are definitely simple enough to do right (if you don't make a major blunder like the Parity team did).

> if you don't make a major blunder like the Parity team

...Which was founded by the very person who developed the smart contract language Solidity. Which goes to show how difficult it is to write 100% bug-free smart contracts.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#312
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Whig history of an ever progressing political system is not accurate in my opinion. I've written this comment before, and I'll repeat it as it's relevant to your comment: Societies have gradually grown more unfair as the political system has strained under their growing complexity. According to political scientists, the average voter has an extremely limited understanding of what their government is doing. The t…

If we create a UBI then people will have the time to be better educated, to be healthier, to raise healthier, happier, and more productive families. We're almost there, automation will strongly facilitate this. Because a new technology seems exciting - and gains adoption because early adoption means potential for an individual to turn $1000s of into $1,000,000s with very little individual effort of working towards ma…

>If we create a UBI then people will have the time to be better educated, to be healthier, to raise healthier, happier, and more productive families. We're almost there, automation will strongly facilitate this.

Compulsory redistribution programs like UBI pervert incentives, leading to less individual responsibility over time. They're clumsy cookie cutter solutions, which with a stroke a pen, impose the same formula to tens/hundreds of millions of people. On one end, the people lose out, and on the other, they win out in the short term. The only determinant of which side a person is on is the amount of currency that they report to the government that they received for that year.

This is an overly simplistic formula that not only adversely affects incentives, but also becomes increasingly better gamed over time, leading to competitive energies being diverted to economically wasteful activities like tax avoidance (which is an industry worth hundreds of billions of dollars per year now).

These kinds of programs do not take into account the unique circumstances found in the vast population they affect. In other words, they ignore the vast majority of the knowledge of society, which is in the form of localized knowledge diffused across millions of people. So in place of spontaneously formed economic relationships based on the rich localized knowledge of millions of individuals, they create simplistic economic relationships based on categories created by legislators.

They are pure economic destruction. And we have evidence of this from the last 40 years. UBI is just the doubling down of an economic model that has been failing for over 40 years.

Social welfare increased 4.8 percent per year on average, between 1972 and 2011 [1]. This represents a massive shift to the social democratic economic model.

And it's not just the US. Almost all advanced economies underwent this transition over the last 40 years, and it has been associated with stagnating wage growth and less economic dynamism.

The key to accelerating gains in quality of life is not more centralization and dependence on government. It is to remove all artificial barriers to access to capital. As it is, only large financial institutions can access global capital markets directly. Regulatory agencies have created very onerous compliance requirements that one has to meet to engage in a wide array of financial transactions. This in turn means that in practice, the majority of the population must pay economic rent to very rich and powerful groups to participate in all aspects of the economy.

Distributed blockchain technology promises to democratize access to global capital markets, so that small businesses and ordinary individuals can trade equity for capital directly with each other, with no 'tax' being paid to rent-seeking institutions and professionals, playing the role of middle-man thanks to special government-granted privileges.

To further elaborate:

I believe everyone should be part of the ownership class. The average person should own microshares in thousands of companies big and small, and be assessing enterprises everyday to determine which ones to purchase a tiny amount of shares in, with zero friction and next-to-zero fixed costs that would otherwise make small purchases uneconomical (if each trade has a $10 trading fee like it does now, you can't economically buy $1 worth of shares, so that's why trading fees have to approach zero to make this kind of dynamic economy possible). These shares in turn would earn people passive income, so that they don't have to work all the time.

If distributed blockchains and cryptocurrency become the main economic institutions in the world, I believe this vision will become possible, and we will experience a renaissance in economic and technological progress like never before seen.

[1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-is-driving-growth-...

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#313
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with your analysis. But cryptocurrencies are just the latest tool that will serve well the interests of the demagogues. Technocracy will not improve affairs that we don't resolve as a society in the first place. More powerful tools means just more power to those who can afford the longest lever. Any other interpretation is just a blatant neglect on the history of technology.

Cryptocurrencies, growing pains aside, will arrest the trend toward economic centralization. They are not just more powerful tools. They are tools that shift the control over money from large trusted third parties to individuals. They literally allow an individual to be their own bank. They are a counter-force against the trend toward eliminating cash, and with it, financial privacy [1]: >Any future cashless bank-pay…

> They literally allow an individual to be their own bank.

The main function of banks is issuing debt, not holding cash.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As this point you've already lost everyone who doesn't already ready the same pamphlets you read and agree. Usage of the term "Whig history" is not confined adherents of a particular ideology, and does not require one to have/not-have any particular set of beliefs to use it (other than believing that the history of some institution is not a story of progress).. In other words, it's not comparable to "comrade". >Appe…

> Usage of the term "Whig history" is not confined adherents of a particular ideology, and does not require one to have/not-have any particular set of beliefs to use it While this is true, outside of some specialized historical critique fields the most common usages of this term are in forums/literature of the libertarian and free market anarchist bent. In those places its a short hand for the idea that government as…

>While this is true, outside of some specialized historical critique fields the most common usages of this term are in forums/literature of the libertarian and free market anarchist bent.

I didn't know that. I haven't seen this term associated with libertarian thought.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am referring to the state-backed political process, not the general variety of politics one sees in private institutions. The former is qualitatively different from other institutions in our society.

> political process If you cannot implement people's political preferences in your contract language, then your contract language will not be used for anything of substantive governmental or political importance unless you have the guns needed to impose your crypto-dictatorship. If you can implement people's political preferences in your contract language, and your contract language is used for political or governmen…

>If you cannot implement people's political preferences in your contract language, then your contract language will not be used for anything of substantive governmental or political importance unless you have the guns needed to impose your crypto-dictatorship.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Why do smart contracts have to implement political ideologies in order to have a substantive impact on the world? Why can't they have an impact by raising the cost of legal enforcement of over-reaching tax mandates and regulatory restrictions, and of mass-surveillance, and thus shifting the balance of power between the individual and the state, toward the individual?

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#316

> Having sounded the alarm bells, a group of benevolent white-hat hackers from the Ethereum community rapidly organized. They analyzed the attack and realized that there was no way to reverse the thefts, yet many more wallets were vulnerable. Time was of the essence, so they saw only one available option: hack the remaining wallets before the attacker did. > By exploiting the same vulnerability, the white-hats hacked…

Keep in mind that the biggest supporters of crypto-currencies tend to have a libertarian or anarchist bent. To them this is a feature.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#317
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we create a UBI then people will have the time to be better educated, to be healthier, to raise healthier, happier, and more productive families. We're almost there, automation will strongly facilitate this. Because a new technology seems exciting - and gains adoption because early adoption means potential for an individual to turn $1000s of into $1,000,000s with very little individual effort of working towards ma…

If we get a UBI, I'm quitting my developer job and just going to coast the rest of my life. I don't care how many corners I have to cut, lol. Gonna milk that cow as hard as I can. My dad used to ask to be laid off jobs (blue collar) so he could collect unemployment for a few months. He did that off and on for years.

When there's too many cooks in the kitchen, we all benefit when there is less people trying to cook.

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're not even close to a world where tools can offer amazing protection. Actually, we're reasonably close--the tools aren't quite there yet for mass consumption (many are still feel quite researchy), but given that the trend of (research -> industry) usually takes 10-25 years, I'd expect that more and more critical systems will be formally verified in 10 years. Even now, companies like Amazon are using some formal…

I think the problem is that the language for smart contracts that backs Ether hasn't been written with formal verification in mind. You could apply formal methods to anything after the fact but it doesn't look like they've made this easy here. You could claim that a C program could be made bug free eventually by applying formal methods for example but it would require a huge amount of work. Is there a good reason the…

I'd agree, and the article basically says the same thing--the language is too expressive, and therefore hard to analyze. I don't know that much about the Ether devs, but I'd expect it just didn't occur to them--even among PL folks, knowledge & experience with something like coq is somewhat rare unless you went to the right undergrad or grad school. Especially if you weren't keeping up with the latest research in the last ~5-10 years or so.

Something like Coq with a few primitives to represent interacting with the Ether network, and an optimizing, verified cross compiler would have been a perfect fit for this sort of thing, in my opinion. It's a shame that they didn't go that route, the extra dev time to get it right probably wouldn't have been equivalent to 200+ dev-years of cost (~31 million).

Re: A hacker stole $31M of Ether – how it happened, and what it means for Ethereum

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As this point you've already lost everyone who doesn't already ready the same pamphlets you read and agree. Usage of the term "Whig history" is not confined adherents of a particular ideology, and does not require one to have/not-have any particular set of beliefs to use it (other than believing that the history of some institution is not a story of progress).. In other words, it's not comparable to "comrade". >Appe…

How are bitcoin or ethereum not highly resistant to change. Explain to me how you would go about changing either of those protocols? And yes there are lots of altcoins but ethereum very quickly is going to replace a good chunk of how things are transacted. And a non-profit without some kind of policy for baked in leadership change sounds a lot like a dictatorship to me.

By design, they enshrine the rights of the individual participant to freely interact in a free market, by preventing the majority from creating any rules to limit access to the platform. So they don't have the same need to adapt as an interventionist government, that imposes itself on the economy through majority dictate, does.

In the case of Ethereum, the Turing Completeness also makes it so that each contract is like a government in and of itself, which any party is free to design to meet their own preferences.

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