Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down • Hacker News Board

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#321

Post by nextlevelwizard » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:21 AM UTC

09bjb wrote: post #211

aleksei wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this is (mostly) a tech site, but do we have to argue semantics every time?

It's not a semantic argument. It's important to make it plain, before having a reasoned discussion, that there are legal drugs that people use every day but wrongly categorizes as "not drugs." Alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine being the main culprits. Food, exercise, and social media also cause experience-shifting changes in neurotransmitters (the drugs that are always mediating your experience). It's important to get…

Air also causes experience shifting changes in body. Think of the last time you went without it. Also thoughts cause multiple experience shifts during the day. Maybe we should start be controlling the air and eliminating thoughts before we get to these bigger things?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#322

Post by nextlevelwizard » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:23 AM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #96

GordonS wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you measure either?

You could measure in deaths, lost productivity, or effect on tax revenue, any sort of typical economic measure really.

Well, the cartels have already caused their part and would have done it regardless, now normal people will get in trouble, possibly lose their jobs and get their lives ruined for basically no reason.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#323

Post by nextlevelwizard » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:33 AM UTC

dankent wrote: post #8

aqme28 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you would construct a switch that couldnt be bypassed by the police once they have full access to the servers.

Even if the primary service itself was compromised, it would be possible to have an automated dead man's switch running on an alternative service that would alert the world that you were being held incommunicado. Of course, failing to disclose the switch to the authorities and thus allowing it to trigger could be considered a violation of a court order and lead to punishment.

You could start from something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bpX8YvNg6Y

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#324

Post by honestoHeminway » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 6:59 AM UTC

sowbug wrote: post #314

bzbarsky wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conversation is action, not thought. I think the distinction here is a pretty dubious one. Consider, as a hypothetical, a situation in which one can actually tell "what someone else is thinking" based on a more advanced form of EEG. Would it still be "thought" as opposed to "conversation" if two people are doing it to each other simultaneously? Why is transcoding in terms of pixels on a monitor different from trans…

FWIW, the lawyers in this thread tuned out at this point. Nothing is very simple in law, but the ambiguities of criminal conspiracy are reasonably distant from the situation you've described. Conspiracy requires communication in order to agree to commit a crime. Positing a kind of thought that communicates doesn't really muddy the waters much. I don't think the philosophers engaged, either. Redefining thought to be i…

Its a over-expandable thought crime law. If a with some friends in a IRC-Channel conspire to "murder" a absentee, where everyone can see only from the context that it is a joke- such a context-free though-crime law will make me a criminal many times the day over.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#325

Post by pizza » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:15 AM UTC

09bjb wrote: post #211

aleksei wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this is (mostly) a tech site, but do we have to argue semantics every time?

It's not a semantic argument. It's important to make it plain, before having a reasoned discussion, that there are legal drugs that people use every day but wrongly categorizes as "not drugs." Alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine being the main culprits. Food, exercise, and social media also cause experience-shifting changes in neurotransmitters (the drugs that are always mediating your experience). It's important to get…

Just to set the record straight can you cite where social media causes experience-shifting changes in neurotransmitters?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#326

Post by pizza » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:16 AM UTC

sondr3 wrote: post #295

5_minutes wrote: post #10

The clever thing is that they took it over and for one month monitored it without the users knowing. Everyone on obfuscating their persona with Tor and bitcoins, still had to enter their postal addresses on the website, to receive the goodies. That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement.

I have a friend who quite frequently used to buy from online markets (I have since lost touch with him). From what he told me what he and his friends used to do was to buy a new post box and set it up somewhere away from where they lived under a fictitious address and name. So they'd be John Doe living at Copper Street 45 (when it only actually goes to 44 or whatever). Then he'd track how long the package took, wheth…

Doesn't it take 2 pieces of photo ID to setup a PO box..?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#327

Post by pizza » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:20 AM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #146

blattimwind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Venezuela? But do they even have electricity for running servers? Venezuela isn't a third world country. Yes, they have electricity (and it is very cheap, hence a lot of BTC mining there).

OK, maybe I was being a little glib. But still, the news reports I hear from that area haven't been very positive as of late, and I do wonder if the country is fundamentally stable enough to rely on hosting anything there.

You may want to consider how where you're getting news from is related to what they're saying.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#328

Post by nnfy » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:34 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #305

nnfy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is completely unequal because you've been given 3 chances to follow the laws of the society in which you live. And because sentencing will still be much less severe than that of murder.

Why three? Why not two or five? What's so special about three that it fits such a wide range of offenses?

Why not three? This "wide range of offenses" generally applies to felonies, which are grevious enough to be placed into their own category with its own suite of punishments, and it is not entirely unreasonable to apply a singular repeat offense rule to all of them. The fact that the number seems arbitrary to you does not make it invalid.

I am sure we can agree that repeat felony offenders need to be handled specially, and, unfortunately, given the [archaic] nature of the judicial system, laws must be codified and at least in theory represent majority agreement. Whether influenced by baseball or something else, three is the number that lawmakers deemed reasonable, and you have not presented a valid argument against the concept or the number.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#329

Post by nnfy » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 7:42 AM UTC

hallman76 wrote: post #300

nnfy wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I believe that western sexual norms are a bit puritanical, the premise behind protecting children with zealous laws is that it is extremely difficult to judge whether child pornography is truely victimless, even if you believe that harm from childhood sexuality is overstated in modern society. Because of the power imbalance between adults and children, and the permanent effects that abuse can have on children,…

That's not expressing an "unpopular opinion". They're being ignorant about the harm being done to the victims of child pornography and (it seems) trying legitimize that harm by drawing a dotted line to homosexuality. It has no place on HN. I would downvote if I could.

>They're being ignorant about the harm being done to the victims of child pornography

You are foolish to believe that all children are harmed by childhood sexuality and/or child pornography. Sex is part of the human nature, and we do not wake up on our 18th birthday and realize that we are ready to begin exploring our bodies. Never mind the fact that human beings can be conditioned to both be traumatized by and accepting of sexual activity by/as children.

>It has no place on HN. I would downvote if I could. This amounts to morally-derived censorship.

It is foolish to presume that your cultural programming should not be scrutinized; society is worse off for this kind of puritanical closed mindedness. No, I'm not asking you to accept victimization of children, but if you cannot honestly discuss and/or examine both sides of an issue, you cannot be confident in your opinion.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#330

Post by glogla » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 8:26 AM UTC

hallman76 wrote: post #300

nnfy wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I believe that western sexual norms are a bit puritanical, the premise behind protecting children with zealous laws is that it is extremely difficult to judge whether child pornography is truely victimless, even if you believe that harm from childhood sexuality is overstated in modern society. Because of the power imbalance between adults and children, and the permanent effects that abuse can have on children,…

That's not expressing an "unpopular opinion". They're being ignorant about the harm being done to the victims of child pornography and (it seems) trying legitimize that harm by drawing a dotted line to homosexuality. It has no place on HN. I would downvote if I could.

Depends.

Teenagers sexting each other?

Someone drawing or 3d modelling fictional underage character?

In many jurisdictions thats the same thing as genuine child abuse base child porn. In my jurisdiction, Harry Potter fanfiction with sex counts as child porn - and as one with extended penalty because it is "delivered through very efficient means like computer network".

Not all things are all the same, even with the same label.