Iron Yard code school to close all campuses • Hacker News Board

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#81

Post by swyx » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:29 AM UTC

brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #15

patio11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I make a comment which is not specific about this school, to which I have no connection, or to coding bootcamps? For-profit education is a regulated industry in the United States and is experiencing significant adversarial attention at the moment, as a result of widespread looting of federal tuition assistance programs, to the tune of billions of dollars. Can I name a Greek god who has non-zero relevance to this…

Why Apollo? I got this from Wikipedia: "...Apollo was also seen as a god who could bring ill-health and deadly plague." In that case...I see your point.

thanks.. that reference was a little too oblique for me

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#82

Post by swyx » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:31 AM UTC

aryehof wrote: post #78

What is the root cause for the decision to end this business? Insufficient income? Costs too high? Cash flow issues - unsustainable inflows vs outflows? Mismanagement or something else?

bizarre that this basic question was left unanswered. Any one of the above would have given some satisfaction to the many people who have a vested interest in Iron Yard/the success of coding bootcamps in general

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#83

Post by bdcravens » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:32 AM UTC

chao- wrote: post #80

rmason wrote: post #13

Knew two people who worked at their Detroit campus. If I'm remembering correctly they had more jobs lined up than students. Now Detroit isn't even listed on their website, yet it only opened in 2015. This filled a real need in Detroit and it saddens me.

>This filled a real need in Detroit and it saddens me. The same is true for Houston. I'm about to hire an Iron Yard graduate for a junior dev position, and if I had the budget to more people, one of the other top candidates was also an Iron Yard grad.

If you'd like you could send me that dev's info (also in Houston)

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#84

Post by swyx » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:33 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #36

tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. People who can effectively teach others to program well enough to secure professional employment may have better options than teaching open-enrollment entry-level programming classes. 2. Because of that, and for any of a number of other reasons, we may generally be overestimating how effectively these kinds of schools are educating people. 3. It's an open secret that hiring in the technology industry isn't based o…

Regarding #1, an Iron Yard competitor offered a six-month contract for $45,000, 1099, here in Boston (with "an option" to re-up, at the same rate). It would not exactly be difficult to beat that number by doing almost anything else. Another was talking about $80K/year...in freaking Ohio. I would love to teach more than I do, and I'm starting to work on some web courses because I've learned from corporate training tha…

would it be more interesting if phrased as a form of sabbatical rather than a full teaching career?

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#85

Post by nashashmi » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:36 AM UTC

bphogan wrote: post #61

christophilus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that perspective. I wonder if there's a better way to go about teaching? It sounds like the current model for both code-schools and universities is pretty crappy for the teachers. What can be done to improve this, do you think?

I have many many thoughts on what model would work. Sorry if this gets ranty... I believe that the models that will be successful are models where there is curriculum designed to be done asynchronously, with ample time for practice and repetition to build skills, followed by assessment and feedback. You do not need a classroom for this. A wise man once told me that a good teacher is not the sage on the stage, they ar…

Thanks for the rant! Enjoyed it.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#86

Post by bdcravens » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:37 AM UTC

utnick wrote: post #6

keyle wrote: post #4

Shouldn't place like these be growing instead of closing down? What did they get wrong? The demand for qualified developers isn't slowing afaik.

My hunch is location, iron yard had a bunch of locations in 3rd and 4th tier markets where there just aren't that many programming jobs. Even in Austin which is probably one of the better markets they had, entry level coding jobs are somewhat scarce compared to demand for them

Houston: Lot of .NET here (oil and healthcare), but I believe IY here was teaching Ruby and React.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#87

Post by nashashmi » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:45 AM UTC

aryehof wrote: post #78

What is the root cause for the decision to end this business? Insufficient income? Costs too high? Cash flow issues - unsustainable inflows vs outflows? Mismanagement or something else?

So according to the numerous comments below asking the relatively similar question, it was difficult to run the business, partially because good teachers are hard to find and partly because the program is intense on the student and lastly because the money to run such operations is unsustainable in the long run.

There is a business model that works but the industry is still in an exploratory phase in trying to discover it.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#88

Post by bschwindHN » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:46 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #50

They were a staple of the community in Greenville, SC. This news was a shock all around.

I was surprised by this as well, when I think of Greenville and tech startup-ish companies, I think of the The Iron Yard. Are there any other companies around with that sort of strong presence? I haven't lived in Greenville for two years now but I've had thoughts of moving back there.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#89

Post by bschwindHN » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:51 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #36

tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. People who can effectively teach others to program well enough to secure professional employment may have better options than teaching open-enrollment entry-level programming classes. 2. Because of that, and for any of a number of other reasons, we may generally be overestimating how effectively these kinds of schools are educating people. 3. It's an open secret that hiring in the technology industry isn't based o…

Regarding #1, an Iron Yard competitor offered a six-month contract for $45,000, 1099, here in Boston (with "an option" to re-up, at the same rate). It would not exactly be difficult to beat that number by doing almost anything else. Another was talking about $80K/year...in freaking Ohio. I would love to teach more than I do, and I'm starting to work on some web courses because I've learned from corporate training tha…

> $80K/year...in freaking Ohio

I don't get this sentence, is this good or bad? I grew up in Ohio and for the majority of people I know there, they would be absolutely thrilled at that salary. The cost of living is nowhere near SF levels.

The "freaking Ohio" part, yeah I can understand that for a lot of parts of Ohio, but it's highly dependent on where in the state you're talking about.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#90

Post by Unbeliever69 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 4:54 AM UTC

I am going to go out on a limb here and say it has nothing to do with the code school business model but instead by the for-profit colleges that bought both the Iron Yard and Dev School (which shut down recently).

It is my belief that for-profit schools (in these cases Apollo Group and Kaplan Test Prep) have looked at code schools as potential cash cows devoid of the complications of both federal financial aid and the gainful employment entanglements associated with the "type" of students that typical for-profits schools attract. While for-profits seemed like a perfect fit for acquiring code schools (and I'm sure led to handsome paydays for the founders), these businesses brought bloat, inefficiencies, and baggage that could not operate in the fast-paced and nimble environments they bought into.

I can't speak for these two code schools but I heard from a reliable first-hand source that when Dev Mountain was bought out by Capella Education, the founders "checked out." What checked in was a bureaucracy that was more concerned about asses-in-seats than providing a bleeding-edge, entrepreneurial-driven education. If you look at the reviews of Dev Mountain by recent students there is no doubt whatsoever that this is what happened. Is this possibly what befell Iron Yard and Dev School? I can't say. What I can say from decades is that when you sell out to a for-profit school, you are very well dancing with the devil.