Iron Yard code school to close all campuses • Hacker News Board

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#21

Post by saimiam » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:41 AM UTC

dkasper wrote: post #19

tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. People who can effectively teach others to program well enough to secure professional employment may have better options than teaching open-enrollment entry-level programming classes. 2. Because of that, and for any of a number of other reasons, we may generally be overestimating how effectively these kinds of schools are educating people. 3. It's an open secret that hiring in the technology industry isn't based o…

Point 3 is overly pessimistic, but firing is a lot more difficult than not-hiring, so there's good reason to be careful.

I know the US is not the world but since we are discussing Iron Yard, it's worth pointing out that the private sector in the US is almost exclusively at-will employment.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#22

Post by packetized » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:44 AM UTC

brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #15

patio11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I make a comment which is not specific about this school, to which I have no connection, or to coding bootcamps? For-profit education is a regulated industry in the United States and is experiencing significant adversarial attention at the moment, as a result of widespread looting of federal tuition assistance programs, to the tune of billions of dollars. Can I name a Greek god who has non-zero relevance to this…

Why Apollo? I got this from Wikipedia: "...Apollo was also seen as a god who could bring ill-health and deadly plague." In that case...I see your point.

http://blog.theironyard.com/2015/07/02/the-iron-yard-strateg...

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#23

Post by microcolonel » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

There are a great number of excellent reasons not to be in Detroit, as a business or an individual. The taxes are outrageous, the government is corrupt, the people who could afford to leave have all but left, the infrastructure is even worse than you'd expect given the ratio of revenue to services. 90% of murders go completely unresolved. That is, out of every ten people killed, and there are a lot, the perpetrators in nine of those murders will likely walk completely free. I don't know how anyone gets by, except perhaps in the gated communities, and in the communities which have organized more closely despite the odds. Even there, the shallow/immediate opportunities are effectively gone.

You truly can not expect many with another option to choose Detroit as it stands. My family on my mother's side grew up there, and it seems it's really breaking their heart to see it today. My mother holds on to hope that the artists will somehow "save" Detroit, which could be somewhat true. I'm of the opinion that nothing will save Detroit until it is so bad that the politicians no longer get anything for their corruption and excess.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#24

Post by john_moscow » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:58 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #10

keyle wrote: post #4

Shouldn't place like these be growing instead of closing down? What did they get wrong? The demand for qualified developers isn't slowing afaik.

1. People who can effectively teach others to program well enough to secure professional employment may have better options than teaching open-enrollment entry-level programming classes. 2. Because of that, and for any of a number of other reasons, we may generally be overestimating how effectively these kinds of schools are educating people. 3. It's an open secret that hiring in the technology industry isn't based o…

> Something like 3 decades of cultural development have trained developers that the most important risk they face in hiring is accepting someone underqualified, rather than passing on someone who is in fact qualified.

I blame the easy investment cash that is often given based on the surface impression your company can make than on its efficiency and GAAP numbers. This promotes overhiring and reduces the role of a single developer to a point where the professional duties take a vanishingly small amount of time, so the efficiency (and hence aptitude or experience) is no longer an asset, while the ability to entertain the earlier hires becomes one of the most important requirements.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#25

Post by kasey_junk » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:59 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #10

keyle wrote: post #4

Shouldn't place like these be growing instead of closing down? What did they get wrong? The demand for qualified developers isn't slowing afaik.

1. People who can effectively teach others to program well enough to secure professional employment may have better options than teaching open-enrollment entry-level programming classes. 2. Because of that, and for any of a number of other reasons, we may generally be overestimating how effectively these kinds of schools are educating people. 3. It's an open secret that hiring in the technology industry isn't based o…

Training junior developers is something I enjoy & think I'm good at.

I actually looked at working for a boot camp once. To do so would have required more than a half pay cut. If I'm going to do that it will be as an underserved public sector educator, not a for profit company.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#26

Post by oddevan » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:01 AM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #11

utnick wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hunch is location, iron yard had a bunch of locations in 3rd and 4th tier markets where there just aren't that many programming jobs. Even in Austin which is probably one of the better markets they had, entry level coding jobs are somewhat scarce compared to demand for them

I think they were even based out of a 4th tier market in Greenville, SC.

They were. They've done a lot for and been very active in the tech scene around town, so I have no idea how successful/unsuccessful their other campuses have been.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#27

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:01 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #20

patio11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I make a comment which is not specific about this school, to which I have no connection, or to coding bootcamps? For-profit education is a regulated industry in the United States and is experiencing significant adversarial attention at the moment, as a result of widespread looting of federal tuition assistance programs, to the tune of billions of dollars. Can I name a Greek god who has non-zero relevance to this…

The sad thing is that all higher level education in the U.S. is for profit. 30 years ago you could go to an average state college for $4,000 a year, that cost is roughly 10x as much. Where has all the money gone? Take a look at the salaries of school presidents, administrators, coaches, even professors, especially their pensions and benefits programs. Its as if all our non-profit institutions are really profit hungry…

It's not the administrative salaries so much as the bloat. Look at the org chart of any major state school 30 years ago compared to today.

Coach salaries tend to be eye-catching but they are generally entirely funded by the athletic department and its supporters, not tuition or state funds.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#28

Post by mattnewton » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:02 AM UTC

saimiam wrote: post #21

dkasper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point 3 is overly pessimistic, but firing is a lot more difficult than not-hiring, so there's good reason to be careful.

I know the US is not the world but since we are discussing Iron Yard, it's worth pointing out that the private sector in the US is almost exclusively at-will employment.

Wrongful termination suits are something that all large companies have lots of scar tissue around though

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#29

Post by ec109685 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:02 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #20

patio11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I make a comment which is not specific about this school, to which I have no connection, or to coding bootcamps? For-profit education is a regulated industry in the United States and is experiencing significant adversarial attention at the moment, as a result of widespread looting of federal tuition assistance programs, to the tune of billions of dollars. Can I name a Greek god who has non-zero relevance to this…

The sad thing is that all higher level education in the U.S. is for profit. 30 years ago you could go to an average state college for $4,000 a year, that cost is roughly 10x as much. Where has all the money gone? Take a look at the salaries of school presidents, administrators, coaches, even professors, especially their pensions and benefits programs. Its as if all our non-profit institutions are really profit hungry…

Public school tuition doesn't cost 40k a year. An employee is not the same as a shareholder.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#30

Post by brianwawok » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 2:02 AM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #23

There are a great number of excellent reasons not to be in Detroit, as a business or an individual. The taxes are outrageous, the government is corrupt, the people who could afford to leave have all but left, the infrastructure is even worse than you'd expect given the ratio of revenue to services. 90% of murders go completely unresolved. That is, out of every ten people killed, and there are a lot, the perpetrators…

The burbs seem "fine", and crimes get solved. I could see living in the burbs and not minding it too much. I wouldn't live in the city limits, but I wouldn't live in NYC either..