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Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

politie.nl

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Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#221

Post by [deleted] »

Analemma_ wrote: post #170
nfbush wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time a market has been taken down it's been due to OPSEC failure and other information leaks (e.g. Silk Road captcha IP leak, DPR's advertising of market being linked to his personal email address). AlphaBay Which got taken down first in this operation was due to a personal email being included in the header of the welcome email sent out to new users 3 years ago [1] [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release…

> Every time a market has been taken down it's been due to OPSEC failure and other information leaks ( This is true, but it dangerously misses the point. Every time someone gets taken down, the know-it-alls on various fora sneer and go "Ha! What terrible opsec! I wouldn't have made that mistake!" No, you would've made some other mistake. To run a darknet market and not get caught, your opsec has to be perfect . Every…

[deleted]

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#222

Post by 5_minutes »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #18
5_minutes wrote: post #10

The clever thing is that they took it over and for one month monitored it without the users knowing. Everyone on obfuscating their persona with Tor and bitcoins, still had to enter their postal addresses on the website, to receive the goodies. That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement.

> That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement. Because obviously people buying a few pills of ecstasy or a tab of LSD are a serious danger to society and should be taken of the streets. /s

Not all clients were end-consumers.

You could also order kilograms there.

Obviously.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#223

Post by metaobject »

mikeash wrote: post #198
aleksei wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this is (mostly) a tech site, but do we have to argue semantics every time?

I don't think this is a semantic argument. The comment I replied to was making the argument that alcohol use is widespread because it has no legal competition. This does not appear to be the case to me, thus undermining the argument.

If someone gets off work and wants to get loaded to forget about their problems, are they more likely to get a 12-pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#224

Post by scotty79 »

mikeash wrote: post #198
aleksei wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this is (mostly) a tech site, but do we have to argue semantics every time?

I don't think this is a semantic argument. The comment I replied to was making the argument that alcohol use is widespread because it has no legal competition. This does not appear to be the case to me, thus undermining the argument.

You are right about availability of nicotine and caffeine but I'm not sure if you can make an argument that they could compete with alcohol.

I know that caffeine was a bit of competition for alcohol in the period right after it was introduced (some think that enlightenment was caused by this), but I don't think it's like that anymore.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#225

Post by mikeash »

mfoy_ wrote: post #201
mikeash wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? If the law is unjust, it's perfectly reasonable to be outraged at being punished when you're caught even if you knew exactly what would happen beforehand. Since drugs have such a stigma in the countries HNers are likely to be from, imagine if we were talking about laws against, say, women driving cars, or criticizing the president.

Then you'd be using your arrest / punishment as a form of martyrdom to draw attention to the issue. Kind of like civil disobedience... but criminal. You'd get arrested (as expected), fined or imprisoned (as expected), then be outraged that the law exists. But you wouldn't be outraged that you _were_ arrested... you must have expected that.

I'm confused by this concept of "Kind of like civil disobedience... but criminal." Isn't it exactly like civil disobedience, which is criminal?

I still don't get why we can't be outraged just because we expected it. If the law says I have to sit at the back of the bus, and I get arrested for sitting at the front of the bus, I can't be outraged at being arrested?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#226

Post by dragonwriter »

mikeash wrote: post #225
mfoy_ wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you'd be using your arrest / punishment as a form of martyrdom to draw attention to the issue. Kind of like civil disobedience... but criminal. You'd get arrested (as expected), fined or imprisoned (as expected), then be outraged that the law exists. But you wouldn't be outraged that you _were_ arrested... you must have expected that.

I'm confused by this concept of "Kind of like civil disobedience... but criminal." Isn't it exactly like civil disobedience, which is criminal? I still don't get why we can't be outraged just because we expected it. If the law says I have to sit at the back of the bus, and I get arrested for sitting at the front of the bus, I can't be outraged at being arrested?

> I'm confused by this concept of "Kind of like civil disobedience... but criminal." Isn't it exactly like civil disobedience, which is criminal?

“Can be” rather than “is”. Civil disobedience can apply to laws with civil or criminal penalties (the “civil” in “civil disobedience” does not refer to the civil/criminal distinction.)

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#227

Post by metaobject »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #141
vkou wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with _______ pose a danger to other people. It is incredibly hypocritical to come down on someone for consuming LSD in their own home, but not on someone getting pissed drunk in their own home. Tens of thousands of people are killed by people under the influence of alcohol in the United States. How many people are killed by people under the influence of LSD? (I have never used drugs, other then alcohol.)

Guns, cars, "homosexual tendencies", etc, etc all fit into that blank.

People with homosexual tendencies pose a danger to other people?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#228

Post by robotresearcher »

TylerH wrote: post #183
robotresearcher wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder is illegal. But somehow the profits from tens of millions of murders aren't injecting cash into a vast underground economy. It's the money that does that.

Except for the small problem of money not being sentient.

It's the (people choosing to inject their) money that does that.

Fixed.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#229

Post by msla »

valuearb wrote: post #153
wybiral wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it sounds like you're saying big drug dealers are just selling drugs to get money to, I don't know, go on murder sprees No. I'm just saying that the people upstream manufacturing massive quantities of meth and heroin probably aren't the kinds of organizations that you want to be making that kind of money.

Then legalize drugs so they can't make that kind of money.

But until that happens, don't buy from big drug sellers.

In a broader sense: We can acknowledge that there's an underlying problem, and how to fix it, while at the same time being willing to advocate a temporary fix until the underlying problem actually is fixed.

Think of it like polyfill: The underlying problem is that old browsers exist, but we can't boil the ocean and make everyone upgrade, so we use polyfills to gain the functionality we want on those old browsers.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#230

Post by msla »

jandrese wrote: post #90
xwvvvvwx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

good argument for legalisation....

The counterargument is that if drugs are legalized then the crime syndicates will need to find a new line of work. It's possible they'll go "legit" like the mob did after prohibition and get into the Casino business, but it's also possible they'll switch to human trafficking or gun running or some other harmful trade. This is an especially big danger if you're talking about a gang that currently deals mostly drugs bu…

The counter-counterargument is that we can legalize difficult-to-police but high-volume "sin" crimes, such as drug use and prostitution, regulate them to the point it's impossible to be a criminal syndicate in those realms, and leave the syndicates with lower-volume crimes, such as murder for hire.

Sure, we can't possibly legalize murder for hire and still have a functional society, but how much profit can you really make filling those kinds of contracts, especially in a world with no illegal drug trade and no human trafficking because hookers are now clean and legal? They can try to expand side businesses all they want, but some of them have a natural cap to how much demand there can be.

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