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The Company Isn't a Family

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41–50 of 51 posts

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#41
The real problem with "The Company is a Family" is enmeshment and the resulting lack of boundaries. The company has an issue, so you need to make sacrifices to resolve it.

I'm not opposed to spending time and effort - even extraordinary amounts of it - to helping the company. But as an employee, I make trades, not sacrifices. Sacrificing for the company makes my working conditions worse, and so I will look elsewhere if I'm not fairly compensated for it (which wouldn't be sacrifice now, would it?)

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#42
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has a very clear goal: make more money, sell more stuff. And the culture around capitalism in different countries, gives it even more specific goals (the american dream, the rat race, etc). > That is like claiming evolution has w goal. Don't anthropomorphize it. Isn't this statement obviously wrong? Evolution is a process in nature. Capitalism is a human invention. One can't anthropomorphize it, because it…

What liar told you that? Capitalism is an emergent system. Nobody designed capitalism.

>What liar told you that?

"Liar"? This choice of wording sounds like a quasi-religious attack. Like they're blasphemers or something, that dared misinform about capitalism.

No chance they could be right, or at least just misguided, instead of "liars"? Or that the subject being more complicated than a binary like "designed/emergent"?

Now, to the gist of it. Numerous human societies existed that weren't capitalist. In fact in many countries (of the last 2-5 centuries) capitalism was imposed along with colonialism, and otherwise they continued their ancient ways of living and trading. It is widely accepted that what we call capitalism (as opposed to mere exchange and trade, which existed since forever) was born around 13-14th century in Europe.

In any case, whether it was emergent or designed doesn't mean much. It was both: it was collectively shaped (emergent), by several influences, but it also had clearly designed elements (from contract and labor law, to central banks and monetary policy).

National law for one gives a very precise framework that molds capitalism in a certain shape in different countries, and that law was designed by actual humans with specific purposes and goals in mind.

And of course, something being "emergent" and that thing having "anthropomorphic" elements (if you refer to the second part of my comment) is not contradictory -- if that something emerged by human action within human societies.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of capitalism is to produce more than one is capable of consuming (i.e. market economy where one produces and sells to multiple people instead of just themselves). There are various equilibrium states between supply and demand, but utility is infinite. If utility is infinite, then the goal of production is to satisfy an equally infinite debt to maximizing utility.

The goal of capitalism is to produce more than one is capable of consuming This is the goal of any economic system as far as I can tell. I don't see how ownership of the means of production matters. If utility is infinite, then the goal of production is to satisfy an equally infinite debt to maximizing utility Sort of. This is why we have sympathy/empathy, social mores, the rule of law, and finally the threat of Malt…

> Socialist and communist governments in the 20th century went to great lengths in order to remind us of that.

Fundamentally, I think it comes down to power relationships. The market economy is a proxy for power relations. Communist (and fascist) governments removed the market economy and replaced it with authoritarian servitude. God shifts from the Economy to the State.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#44
post #5

Reid Hastings (Netflix founder) uses a different analogy. He compares a company as a high performing "sports team". With the idea being, you're working towards a collective goal. You each have you're own role. But if you're not performing, you get cut. Just like any athlete would get cut. The problem with the "family" analogy is it implies "unconditional love" regardless if you're messing up, failing, not performing.

I challenge the idea that people in a company are working towards a collective goal. - The goal of those with lots of equity, like the founders and investors, is that "collective goal" of company profit. - The goal of one employee may be to keep their job, provide for their family, and spend as much time with their family as possible. - The goal of another employee may be to learn as much as possible. - The goal of a…

The bad thing about the sports analogy is that sports are mass entertainment.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#45
post #32
post #5

Reid Hastings (Netflix founder) uses a different analogy. He compares a company as a high performing "sports team". With the idea being, you're working towards a collective goal. You each have you're own role. But if you're not performing, you get cut. Just like any athlete would get cut. The problem with the "family" analogy is it implies "unconditional love" regardless if you're messing up, failing, not performing.

A company is nothing like a sports team. Sport teams are mostly a lose-win proposition but companies can be win-win where each company thrives and supports the other within an ecosystem. Sports teams produce no value (you could argue entertainment is value I guess but I don't mean it in this sense). An employee's impact lasts significantly longer than any player on a sports team. Code I write today will run the next…

Sports teams are lose-win only if you look at the events of the field. If you consider the sporting industry, then having a Babe Ruth on the Yankees in a very good thing even if you're the Red Sox, as it increases fan interest in general.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has a very clear goal: make more money, sell more stuff. And the culture around capitalism in different countries, gives it even more specific goals (the american dream, the rat race, etc). > That is like claiming evolution has w goal. Don't anthropomorphize it. Isn't this statement obviously wrong? Evolution is a process in nature. Capitalism is a human invention. One can't anthropomorphize it, because it…

What liar told you that? Capitalism is an emergent system. Nobody designed capitalism.

If capitalism is emergent it emerged from people's desire to make more money, sell more stuff.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#47
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a company that had this framing, and it works especially well around peer-to-peer relationships: - If a teammate is doing something wrong, give them feedback. I don't try to improve my family. - If a teammate is doing well, have them share what's working. I don't try to get every detail out of family. - If a teammate is going in the wrong direction, I remind them of our shared goal. I don't try to change…

I agree that a company is nothing like a family, but not all of your counter-arguments above don't ring well. "I don't try to improve my family." Don't most (family members)? "I don't try to change the goals of my family." Again, don't most?

I suppose I could be more clear.

I don't try to improve my family as a first-order activity. I will offer help if they ask, but not everybody wants every dinner or vacation to be a discussion of the shortcomings and how to mitigate them or of their strengths and how they need to find more opportunities to use them.

I don't try to change the goals of my family. If my daughter wants to go backpack through the wilderness, or my mom wants to move to Vietnam, that's cool. At work, it's important that we all want (e.g.) the company to grow by 75%+ this year and we need to set goals on how to get there. If my coworkers want to get to profitability instead, it's not an incorrect course of action, but I will debate with them until we're all shooting for the same goal.

Families can be quite a bit more live-and-let-live. Teams need to be invested in the same general direction.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#48
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the league. There are lots of soccer players in America only making 60k or so a year despite playing at the highest level of soccer and being fully professional.

Nobody looks at MLS as the highest level of soccer.

Sorry, would you rather me say “tier”? It occupies the top spot in the league pyramid and is fully professionalized.

That MLS isn’t of the highest quality should be obvious to anyone concerned, especially considering I’ve used it as a low paying contrast to “professional sports teams”.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#49
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a company is nothing like a family, but not all of your counter-arguments above don't ring well. "I don't try to improve my family." Don't most (family members)? "I don't try to change the goals of my family." Again, don't most?

I suppose I could be more clear. I don't try to improve my family as a first-order activity. I will offer help if they ask, but not everybody wants every dinner or vacation to be a discussion of the shortcomings and how to mitigate them or of their strengths and how they need to find more opportunities to use them. I don't try to change the goals of my family. If my daughter wants to go backpack through the wildernes…

>I don't try to improve my family as a first-order activity. I will offer help if they ask, but not everybody wants every dinner or vacation to be a discussion of the shortcomings and how to mitigate them or of their strengths and how they need to find more opportunities to use them.

Then again, and I'm just being pedantic here, that's also the case with most companies. It's not the job of most employees to "improve" the company or talk about how its "shortcomings and how to mitigate them" etc. Usually they just have some specific tasks to do, and the other things are more for management.

>I don't try to change the goals of my family. If my daughter wants to go backpack through the wilderness, or my mom wants to move to Vietnam, that's cool.

On the other hand, most people try to influence the goals of their family, e.g. if somebody's kid is a slacker that fails at school and plays videogames all day, they try to get them to shape, etc.

>At work, it's important that we all want (e.g.) the company to grow by 75%+ this year and we need to set goals on how to get there. If my coworkers want to get to profitability instead, it's not an incorrect course of action, but I will debate with them until we're all shooting for the same goal.

I don't think this applies to most employees. It's not at all important that all are agreeing "for the same goal", as management decides those goals.

Re: The Company Isn't a Family

#50
We had project managers come in and say "the business" has set a deadline of X on the project. I wasn't involved in setting the deadline even though I'm the architect responsible for leading the dev team to get it done.

I said I wouldn't commit the team to a date that I had no role in setting. They asked me when do I think it could get done, I told them I didn't know.

Then when we estimated our first sprint and based our capacity on a realistic 5 hour days per dev based on meetings, tickets, etc. they tried to push back. Agile sounds all good until you start talking about a "sustainable pace" and 40 hour work weeks.

All that to say, my job is not my family. I set the expectation of 40 hour work weeks. Even if I do end up working extra because I'm on a groove or doing something challenging or interesting, I don't let anyone know I'm working extra.

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