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Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

politie.nl

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Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#171

Post by rfrank »

valuearb wrote: post #160
rfrank wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 'small time' drug dealers get their supply from the bigger fish. The value in prosecuting them isn't in stopping end users or sales that max out at like $200, it's in working towards shutting down large international suppliers. Because they don't just ship drugs, they ship people and weapons too. Regardless of how one feels about drug use, the realities of the trade are grim. I think there's also value in definin…

The reality of illegal drugs is by making them illegal you give massive amounts of capital to the worst people in the world, who invest those profits into other awful trades. You legalize drugs, you take away their massive cash flies and cripple their organizations.

> You legalize drugs, you take away their massive cash flies and cripple their organizations.

I'm not convinced this is true, there's lots of ways to make a big profit illegally, drugs are just comparatively easy. I'm a proponent of full drug legalization (it's a space where I have large amounts of first hand experience that won't be discussed on HN), but it's still important to separate an ideological position from reality. The international drug trade is directly tied to human trafficking. Turning a blind eye to one is turning a blind eye to both.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#172

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #145
atemerev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything that is illegal is wrong. E.g. being gay is illegal in many places.

Buying drugs can fund actions far worse than just creating drugs. From human slavery (drug mules) to murder. Some of the other things on that list are bad not because the actual item being traded is bad, but because of what the trade enables. I'm not seeing a significant difference between the markets in this regard, except for popularity. Compared to the example you gave, where no one is harmed and no further harm i…

Paying taxes contributes to legally dubious actions such as drone strikes at weddings. Buying certain types of cheap clothing or manufactured goods supports slave like conditions for some workers. Buying beef and other food products contributes to deforestation, depletion of fishing stocks and other things destructive to the environment. Going to a strip club supports human trafficking and sex slavery. Buying diamonds and rare earth metals necessary for tech devices supports bloody, endless civil wars. The drug wars raging in Mexico pale in comparison to the atrocities and Heart of Darkness horrors happening still in the Congo, with its rich supplies of coltan.

Don't think that you can claim innocence because you are following the law.

It's more accurate to say that government prohibition fund actions far worse than just creating drugs, human slavery (drug mules) to murder.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#173

Post by trumpownsyou »

oh_sigh wrote: post #167
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying drugs can fund actions far worse than just creating drugs. From human slavery (drug mules) to murder. Some of the other things on that list are bad not because the actual item being traded is bad, but because of what the trade enables. I'm not seeing a significant difference between the markets in this regard, except for popularity. Compared to the example you gave, where no one is harmed and no further harm i…

You should say " sometimes buying drugs goes to fund actions..." I buy my marijuana from a friend who grows a few plants in his basement. How exactly is that funding slavery and murder?

it's not, that guy is just a simpleton.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#174

Post by robotresearcher »

valuearb wrote: post #152
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying drugs can fund actions far worse than just creating drugs. From human slavery (drug mules) to murder. Some of the other things on that list are bad not because the actual item being traded is bad, but because of what the trade enables. I'm not seeing a significant difference between the markets in this regard, except for popularity. Compared to the example you gave, where no one is harmed and no further harm i…

Buying drugs doesn't fund those actions. Making drugs illegal does, just like when Prohibition started murderous gang wars, gave us the highest murder rate in modern history, caused thousands of deaths from adulterated spirits, and funded the modern mafia.

Murder is illegal. But somehow the profits from tens of millions of murders aren't injecting cash into a vast underground economy. It's the money that does that.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#175

Post by dragonwriter »

bzbarsky wrote: post #136
dragonwriter wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sort of. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1117 ("conspiracy to commit murder") only requires one person to take action and everyone in the group that did the thinking with them is guilty of a crime. Wrong. It requires all the people to have taken action to communicate their intention to collaborate on the plan, and only one of them to have taken additional action toward acheiving it. People don't think in…

> to communicate their intention to collaborate on the plan What the law says is "conspire to violate". If person X and person Y together work out a way for person Y to commit murder and then person Y commits murder, is person X considered as conspiring? > People don't think in groups Sure they do. It's called "conversation" or "correspondence". If we had telepathy, we could skip the transcoding to sound or text, but…

> Sure they do. It's called "conversation" or "correspondence"

Conversation is action, not thought.

> If we had telepathy

There's a couple different things (in fiction, naturally) that go by that name; the active analog to oral communication is also action, the sort of passive integration associated (not exclusively, just as an example) many hive-mind collective organisms in sci-fi is thought rather than action, but also not analogous to what goes on between humans.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#176

Post by jitix »

> More than 500 Dutch delivery addresses were reported to couriers and postal services with the intention of stopping the deliveries

Does this mean that the goal of the LEO was to only stop the deliveries without actually arresting the recipients? If that's true then it seems the way law enforcement works in the EU is very different than that in the US.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#177

Post by BearGoesChirp »

valuearb wrote: post #152
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying drugs can fund actions far worse than just creating drugs. From human slavery (drug mules) to murder. Some of the other things on that list are bad not because the actual item being traded is bad, but because of what the trade enables. I'm not seeing a significant difference between the markets in this regard, except for popularity. Compared to the example you gave, where no one is harmed and no further harm i…

Buying drugs doesn't fund those actions. Making drugs illegal does, just like when Prohibition started murderous gang wars, gave us the highest murder rate in modern history, caused thousands of deaths from adulterated spirits, and funded the modern mafia.

Buying drugs does fund those actions. Drugs being illegal are a major reason why, and why I support legalization. But that doesn't excuse anyone currently making a purchase today.

Think of it this way, illegal images could be produced by advanced CGI, but aren't because that tends to be just as illegal. That doesn't excuse anyone who consume images not produced by advanced CGI.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#178

Post by mullen »

mindcrime wrote: post #149
mullen wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thinking about this and I don't think it really has to do with location of your servers, it is the coding and architecture of the server environment along with server operators OPSEC. All of the Dark Net drug website busts I have seen over the last few years are because of poor coding, poor architecture, poor security and even worse OPSEC. The people who run these sites are not professionals.

That's a good point, but I can't help but think it would also help to have your servers (and possibly yourself) located in a geo that isn't so willing to bend to the whims the US, various European states, etc.

That would also be very helpful but hiding the ownership of a server behind a wall of LLC's and Trusts from various locations around the world is also a good idea.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#179

Post by blubb-fish »

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #145
atemerev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything that is illegal is wrong. E.g. being gay is illegal in many places.

Buying drugs can fund actions far worse than just creating drugs. From human slavery (drug mules) to murder. Some of the other things on that list are bad not because the actual item being traded is bad, but because of what the trade enables. I'm not seeing a significant difference between the markets in this regard, except for popularity. Compared to the example you gave, where no one is harmed and no further harm i…

where exactly are those slaves working and murders taking place along the production and distribution of LSD?

same question with regard to home grown weed?

please, elaborate ...

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#180

Post by blubb-fish »

wybiral wrote: post #89
rhizome wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, it sounds like you're saying big drug dealers are just selling drugs to get money to, I don't know, go on murder sprees? I'm not saying violence is not a part of these kinds of crimes, but I don't think the purpose of their participation is just to enable other, more serious crimes. That is, I don't think it's very common for someone to say "I want to sell a lot of drugs because I can't afford to kill enough pe…

> it sounds like you're saying big drug dealers are just selling drugs to get money to, I don't know, go on murder sprees No. I'm just saying that the people upstream manufacturing massive quantities of meth and heroin probably aren't the kinds of organizations that you want to be making that kind of money.

and those chemists producing acid in Swiss university labs? are they also eating babies?
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