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$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

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Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#241

Post by kerbalspacepro »

zubairq wrote: post #176

To say that this is unsafe is incorrect. It would be unsafe in the west compared to other cars, but in India compared to other cars and motorbikes that riders have as an option the Renault actually INCREASES safety dramatically

They increase safety in the short-term. As the number of automobiles goes up, they become more dangerous. Essentially,

safety = mass of your car / average mass of collisionable vehicles + C, where C is a constant that describes how safe the car would be driving the road alone

The safest world is one where you have a tank and everybody else walks.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#242

Post by Retric »

tinus_hn wrote: post #227
Retric wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on top speed. If you moped never breaks 25mph then a car doing 50mph could easily be less safe. It's also much more dangerous to people around you.

In the Netherlands you are about 4 times more likely to be seriously injured or killed due to an accident by distance driven on a moped compared to in a car. This is due to the safety features of cars and to a lesser extent the fact that young people, who end up in a lot of accidents are allowed to ride a moped but not a car.

How many of those collisions are with cars?

Because cars kill a lot of pedestrians, but those count more vs people walking than vs people driving due to the relative distances involved.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#243

Post by HiroshiSan »

unethical_ban wrote: post #239
F2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know you can buy baby formula in third world countries for a fraction of the price here? All because evil regulations make companies make use actual safe ingredients and manufacturing practices. When will this big government madness end. When will the US admit their regs are too strenuous so we can finally buy our cut rate industrial runoff baby formula in peace.

Your comment isn't up to HN standards, and it also misses the point. We already allow two-wheeled death machines on freeways, and we allow people to ride them without helmets, and we allow children to ride as passengers. Your sarcasm would have made a valid point if modern sedans were the low bar in vehicular safety in the US.

I thought it was illegal to ride a motorcycle/bicycle without a helmet? I'm trying to find a flaw in your argument...but it's not easy. Though I feel as if we shouldn't go back on safety standard progress just because there is a subset of vehicles where there's not much we can do in terms of the vehicle...but I'm sure there is a lot we can do in terms of what the rider wears.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#244

Post by jdavis703 »

briandear wrote: post #222
jdavis703 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective means of personal transportation shouldn't mean four wheeled vehicles by default. Bikes, motor scooters, motorcycles, Oneboards, skateboards, etc are all probably much more effective than single occupancy drivers in a 4-5 seat vehicle.

When it’s convenient to carry a family’s worth of groceries on a skateboard, perhaps your argument might make sense. Regarding a skateboard.. seriously? Effective isn’t just about energy consumption, it’s about time as well. A five mile trip on a skateboard doesn’t sound very “effective” and it’s pretty much impossible in a place like India. Riding a bicycle in India (or a motorcycle) is also rather ineffective unles…

I guess my four mile commute on a skateboard isn't effective, despite the fact that I'm going faster than the cars and buses stuck in traffic, not to mention pedestrians. Also I can easily fit dinner from the grocery in my backpack.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#245

Post by weeksie »

m_mueller wrote: post #139
gnarmis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... Sorting by the second column gives a good picture about which country has more dangerous drivers. And Thailand is #2... so your claim tracks well against this reality.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

HAhahaha, and if you believe Indian government statistics I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn . . .

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#246

Post by weeksie »

threeseed wrote: post #116
weeksie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

Not sure what you mean about Thailand and cars. Cars have been popular in popular areas like Bangkok and Udon Thani for well over a decade and it definitely isn't some new thing. In 2015 they had the largest car industry in SE Asia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Thailan...

Thailand is _very recently_ a much more wealthy country than it was even twenty years ago. The per capita car ownership has certainly gone up drastically in the last twenty years, particularly on the islands and more rural areas where the primary form of transport is still mostly tuk tuks and scooters. Automotive manufacturing doesn't necessarily reflect the car ownership of the local population.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#247

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

buserror wrote: post #208
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that this is an article written by an American seemingly enamored by something in India, and like most write-ups of such kind, it romanticizes whatever happens in India while being over-critical of whatever happens back at home. As an Indian who currently lives in the US and has a much more 'level' view of both places, this fetishization is quite frustrating. That being said, the ceremony looks a little…

Also he rubbishes quite a bit what happens in the rest of the world (or is it US only). I know that in the UK, I bought a new BMW and we came in, my wife got flowers, the car was covered and she got to pull it off to 'reveal' it, and the vendor took a good 1/2 hour explaining all the gadgets etc. So no flowers on the car and priest onboard, but definitely 'ceremonious' enough.

Plus the priest thing is very cultural and nothing to do with cars in specific. A lot of Indians typically do ritualistic ceremonies (pooja) for any slightly major life event. And for most Indians buying a car qualifies (even the cheapest car is a fundamentally aspirational purchase for the lower and the lower middle class).

I dunno if it's standard in the US, but Indians typically also distribute sweets to friends and neighbors to 'celebrate' the purchase.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#248

Post by EngineerBetter »

aquadrop wrote: post #235
realusername wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the opposite, Renault was making consumer market electric cars before Tesla (and more accessible as well).

I don't think this is true (not the accessible part of course). Renault started to sell Zoe in 2012, Tesla Roadster was selling for 4 years at that time and Tesla Inc was releasing new model. I don't say that Tesla single handedly pushed electric cars forward, but it draw a lot of attention to it, like Toyota Prius sparked attention to hybrid cars before that. Before 2010 electric car was treated mostly as a freaky c…

Renault were selling the all-electric Fluence in 2011. I'd suggest Nissan probably did more for EV than anyone else with the Leaf.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#249

Post by EngineerBetter »

masklinn wrote: post #234
rihegher wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that price I'm pretty sure the battery is not sold with it, which means you need to pay a rent subscription for it. In France this rent monthly cost for a ZOE battery is about 50 euros a month

AFAIK you need to rent the Zoe battery either way.

This is not correct. In 2015 Renault introduced the option to buy the battery outright.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#250

Post by [deleted] »

7952 wrote: post #226
CamperBob2 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you'll be more likely to feel sorry for the driver, and less likely to feel defensive. It will be no more socially acceptable to jaywalk in front of an autonomous car than it would be to cut in line. (And yes, I know, line-cutting is rampant in China... but in India?)

You can easily see it the other way around. That cars act rudely by obstructing pedestrians and "cut the line" continuously. A lot of the paraphernalia in western style roads just reinforces the status of cars at the expense of other users.

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