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Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

politie.nl

11–20 of 381 posts

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#11
post #3

>This was made possible by the arrest of the two administrators of Hansa Market in Germany, aged 30 and 31. Since their arrest, the two men, from Siegen, NorthRhine-Westphalia, have been kept in pre-trial detention, and are only allowed to have contact with their lawyers. So admins of the other markets: always have a dead-mans switch.

What would the switch do? For who?

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#12
post #4

Services like these give Tor and related projects a bad name. Taking down illegal market places is part of the police's job and this is definitely a success story. The article is lacking in details a bit, but it seems they've taken it down using regular old police work as they mention an "undercover operation". This proves once more that the weakening of security for everybody is not needed to catch criminals.

> Services like these give Tor and related projects a bad name

In more ways than one.

What if this had been a tor website that was sharing documents proving government or police corruption? And yet somehow, the police did manage to shut it down. It goes to show that the tech needed for fully anonymous websites may not be good enough yet.

Any sufficiently anonymous website that could be used for good reasons can also be used for bad reasons. If Tor works, we have the good at the bad. If Tor doesn't work, we have neither.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#13
post #7

I visited Hansa a few days ago and the first thing I noticed was a banner that read something like:- "New registrations are disabled because of high demand caused by the exodus from AlphaBay"

>This involved taking covert control of Hansa under Dutch judicial authority a month ago, which allowed Dutch police to monitor the activity of users without their knowledge, and then shutting down AlphaBay during the same period. It meant the Dutch police could identify and disrupt the regular criminal activity on Hansa but then also sweep up all those new users displaced from AlphaBay who were looking for a new trading platform. In fact they flocked to Hansa in their droves, with an eight-fold increase in the number of new members of Hansa recorded immediately following the shutdown of AlphaBay.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsroom/news/massive-blow-to-...

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#14
post #3

>This was made possible by the arrest of the two administrators of Hansa Market in Germany, aged 30 and 31. Since their arrest, the two men, from Siegen, NorthRhine-Westphalia, have been kept in pre-trial detention, and are only allowed to have contact with their lawyers. So admins of the other markets: always have a dead-mans switch.

What would the switch do? For who?

Alert users that the market is compromised.

An example, an admin could have a personal password that is used to update a secure hash of "last known time the market was not compromised". The users can use the public key to verify the markers. Every day or two, the admin updates that marker using the private key (password). A few days after they're arrested, they won't have updated it, the users will know something is up.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#15
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you would construct a switch that couldnt be bypassed by the police once they have full access to the servers.

Even if the primary service itself was compromised, it would be possible to have an automated dead man's switch running on an alternative service that would alert the world that you were being held incommunicado. Of course, failing to disclose the switch to the authorities and thus allowing it to trigger could be considered a violation of a court order and lead to punishment.

Also, it doesn't look good when you're arrested on suspicion of running Hansa and next morning Hansa has a big banner saying "the admin hasn't checked in, we think something is wrong".

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#16
post #13
post #7

I visited Hansa a few days ago and the first thing I noticed was a banner that read something like:- "New registrations are disabled because of high demand caused by the exodus from AlphaBay"

>This involved taking covert control of Hansa under Dutch judicial authority a month ago, which allowed Dutch police to monitor the activity of users without their knowledge, and then shutting down AlphaBay during the same period. It meant the Dutch police could identify and disrupt the regular criminal activity on Hansa but then also sweep up all those new users displaced from AlphaBay who were looking for a new tra…

So the banner must have been placed there after the server was seized. Keeping the server running long enough to gather evidence of the actions of their high-value targets was probably a higher priority than sweeping-up as many customers as possible.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#17

The clever thing is that they took it over and for one month monitored it without the users knowing. Everyone on obfuscating their persona with Tor and bitcoins, still had to enter their postal addresses on the website, to receive the goodies. That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement.

Catching users is of limited interest to most law enforcement, and I suspect especially for Dutch law enforcement.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#18

The clever thing is that they took it over and for one month monitored it without the users knowing. Everyone on obfuscating their persona with Tor and bitcoins, still had to enter their postal addresses on the website, to receive the goodies. That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement.

> That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement.

Because obviously people buying a few pills of ecstasy or a tab of LSD are a serious danger to society and should be taken of the streets. /s

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#19

The clever thing is that they took it over and for one month monitored it without the users knowing. Everyone on obfuscating their persona with Tor and bitcoins, still had to enter their postal addresses on the website, to receive the goodies. That database must be a wet dream for law enforcement.

Users usually use GPG to encrypt that data for precisely this reason.

Re: Underground Hansa Market taken over and shut down

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the switch do? For who?

Alert users that the market is compromised. An example, an admin could have a personal password that is used to update a secure hash of "last known time the market was not compromised". The users can use the public key to verify the markers. Every day or two, the admin updates that marker using the private key (password). A few days after they're arrested, they won't have updated it, the users will know something is…

This is an over engineered solution, and I never understood the value of these warrant canaries etc.

In the right set of circumstances you would be compelled to hand over any keys (with their passphrase) in an investigation like this, and failure to do so would result in harsher penalties.

People are the weak link here.

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