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Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

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Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#31

Post by ilitirit »

smichel17 wrote: post #23
ilitirit wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the act of drowning though, or isn't it? eg. You can be drowning, but still be rescued. It's no big deal, but I've also thought that if someone drowned it implies they died.

Define "died". It's not as easy as you might think, because as medical technology improves, the point of no return slips farther away. Per the article, this child's heart stopped beating for 2 hours.

I know, hence my original question. Although it says the child's heart stopped beating "on its own", which implies that it was still beating through "artificial" means.

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#32

Post by Djvacto »

School-Cotton wrote: post #19
noelwelsh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert here, but I think there are two recognised types of death: heart stops working (what is usually meant by death) and brain stops working (aka brain death). In this case it seems her heart stopped working so she did in fact die, by one definition. It seems she was well on her way to brain death as well.

No, what’s usually meant by death is definitely “brain stops working forever”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

"Clinical death is the medical term for cessation of blood circulation and breathing[...] It occurs when the heart stops beating in a regular rhythm, a condition called cardiac arrest. The term is also sometimes used in resuscitation research.

Stopped blood circulation has historically proven irreversible in most cases. Prior to the invention of cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), defibrillation, epinephrine injection, and other treatments in the 20th century, the absence of blood circulation (and vital functions related to blood circulation) was historically considered the official definition of death. With the advent of these strategies, cardiac arrest came to be called clinical death rather than simply death, to reflect the possibility of post-arrest resuscitation."

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#33

Post by graedus »

gambiting wrote: post #24
mrkrabo wrote: post #18

I swear to God, from the three videos I've seen, the drowning kid was always black. Was that luck, or was that an actor?

Does it matter in any way? Is it even a fact worth observing?

There is a stereotype that "black people can't swim". May be local to the US.

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#34

Post by brianwawok »

gambiting wrote: post #24
mrkrabo wrote: post #18

I swear to God, from the three videos I've seen, the drowning kid was always black. Was that luck, or was that an actor?

Does it matter in any way? Is it even a fact worth observing?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6319a2.htm

> Disparities were greatest in swimming pools, with swimming pool drowning rates among blacks aged 5–19 years 5.5 times higher than those among whites in the same age group.

The reason it matters is because it is a fact. If you are a lifeguard at a swimming pool, research shows that you should spend MORE time watching after the black kids than the white kids. It's not about being PC, it is about keeping kids alive. If one group is more likely to drown, then you should know about it and spend more effort on it. Not pretend to be colorblind and increase the risk of causing deaths.

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#35

Post by madilonts »

Well, this event happens enough that it might be worth studying the benefit of oxygen therapy, but I'd be very careful about the conclusions you draw from this.

Maybe the oxygen had a substantial positive effect, or maybe the child would've recovered on her own. We really don't know, since there are other reports of children who have good neurological outcome despite terrible prognosis [1] [2].

I'm suspicious because of the unusual and/or stereotyped responses in the Medical Gas article and the linked YouTube videos: "doctors said she had 48 hours to live" (doctors don't say things like that) and "this demonstrates that we're inducing 8101 genes!" (ummm, OK...), etc.

Also, be suspicious when something like this hits all the pseudo-news sites simultaneously. It reminds me of the articles that go something like "16 year-old cures cancer...DOCTORS HATE HIM!".

Finally, I'm very happy this little girl has been given a second chance and hope for her continued recovery. However, don't forget that a toddler was left unsupervised and submerged in a pool for 15 minutes. Some people call that an accident; some people call it neglect.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=3379747

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=10665559

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#37

Post by PetitPrince »

davidiach wrote: post #10

>Concluding, the researchers say that to their knowledge, this is the first reported case of gray matter loss and white matter atrophy (types of brain damage) reversal with any therapy and that treatment with oxygen should be considered in similar cases. “Such low-risk medical treatment may have a profound effect on recovery of function in similar patients who are neurologically devastated by drowning." I always beli…

Not to dampen your enthusiasm too much, but please note that infants are exceptionally good at producing new neurons compared to adults; their brain aren't fully developed after all.

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#38

Post by amykhar »

What frustrates me is that in the United States, most insurance companies won't pay for hyperbaric oxygen treatment for traumatic brain injuries. My son, 26, was injured in a car accident last November. I would love to be able to get Oxygen therapy for him, but cannot.

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#39

Post by [deleted] »

ilitirit wrote: post #15
whorleater wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The World Health Organization in 2005 defined drowning as "the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid". from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning

That is the act of drowning though, or isn't it? eg. You can be drowning, but still be rescued. It's no big deal, but I've also thought that if someone drowned it implies they died.

[deleted]

Re: Scientists Reverse Brain Damage in Drowned Toddler?

#40

Post by [deleted] »

davidiach wrote: post #10

>Concluding, the researchers say that to their knowledge, this is the first reported case of gray matter loss and white matter atrophy (types of brain damage) reversal with any therapy and that treatment with oxygen should be considered in similar cases. “Such low-risk medical treatment may have a profound effect on recovery of function in similar patients who are neurologically devastated by drowning." I always beli…

[deleted]
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