How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#361

Post by DanielBMarkham » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 12:48 PM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #356

ucarion wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter you replied to may have a point. Just because vile speech has a place in public discourse, doesn't mean it is good to present that speech in a very public way. Reddit is among the most widely-used websites in the world -- 7th, by Alexa's rankings. Reddit lives up to its motto of being the front page of the internet. Imagine one of the top-10 newspapers in the United States were occasionally publishing s…

The number 1 most popular newspaper in the UK basically is publishing stuff you'd see on The Donald. As are many of the tabloids.

And let's not forget that it used to be quite common in many major cities for porn and prostitution providers to publish their own "newspapers" for street vendors to peddle.

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#362

Post by cmurphycode » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 12:53 PM UTC

dehue wrote: post #260

awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I find fascinating and disappointing is how much the opioid crisis isn't being talked about or addressed proportional to other societal issues. Actually, it is the opposite. Gun violence, opioid crisis, etc are given too much attention. The deaths of opioid crisis and gun deaths are minuscule compared to the deaths cause by obesity, sedentary lifestyle, cancer, heart disease, etc. Take the top two killers in a…

I believe at least one of the reasons why those are given more attention is because they are more likely to affect younger people and they seem more preventable. As opposed to cancer and heart disease which are more likely to kill older people and often develop over a lifetime.

Yeah, I think that's definitely part of it.

https://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@sop/@smd...

http://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/opioid-overdose-dea...

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#363

Post by slfnflctd » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 12:56 PM UTC

_acme wrote: post #241

cprayingmantis wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because opioids are legal. Anyone can obtain them with very little effort and they don't have to worry about being 'caught'. The only way to get meth or crack was to engage in an illegal transaction. Now you don't have to be a criminal to be an addict and I think that scares people (Although nothing has really changed other than society's view of it).

It's no longer 'very little effort' to get a doctor to write for an opioid.

Every single one of these threads or news articles blathers on and on about how all these clueless/evil doctors are hand-in-hand with Big Bad Pharma just tossing opiate prescriptions at everyone who walks in the door. At this point it's ridiculous, because the few outfits who did anything like this stopped or were shut down years ago.

The pendulum has swung in the other direction-- doctors have been inundated with the 'crisis' message and are terrified to prescribe any strong pain or anxiety meds to anyone. It was once routine for me and others I know to be prescribed hydrocodone for conditions like painful seized muscles, root canals or severe strep throat. We were apparently all in the ~80%+ who used it as intended and stopped. It worked great! No one I know has received an opiate for those conditions in a very long time. They all tell you just take ibuprofen now, which is completely insufficient. So what to people do instead? They drink or turn to illegal drugs. Functionally banning drugs does nothing to fight addiction, and in some cases can make it worse.

Sorry to rant, but I have both seen and experienced the hell of untreated pain due to skittish doctors. The cowardice and misinformation resulting in such direct harm really angers me.

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#364

Post by fiatjaf » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:16 PM UTC

pivotal wrote: post #183

fav_collector wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's organized well for finding information but it lacks the "human" element in a social community. You're just anonymous person #4214 who's interested in cars or football. In the good old days with forums, people were recognizable with avatars and signatures. People chatted about everything, not just the topic at hand, so the personality of each person had a large spectrum. The communities were small enough where pe…

This is an interesting thought. The nicest communities on reddit I've encountered tended to be small or to have a small "core" group that all knew each other and were highly visible in the community. /r/running for example, when I regularly read it, had daily threads where the main people chatted about all sorts of things. It felt very homey, reminded me of when I read obscure usenet groups as a kid. I wonder if ther…

https://spectrum.chat/ ?

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#365

Post by perakojotgenije » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:18 PM UTC

gsdfg4gsdg wrote: post #258

Chardok wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly believe drug addiction is a symptom of a greater issue in someone's life. There is no person who wakes up and says "I think I'll get addicted to heroin today"; it becomes a means of escape and relief from something that gradually turns into its own monster and creates a terrible cycle of dependence. By cutting out the time and money needed to "feed the beast" while providing professional help, they can bre…

The vast majority of heroin addicts today started with prescription painkillers. Many of them went into a doctor's office and took the pill that was prescribed to them by a trusted community member with a diploma on the wall. The problem was that these doctors were frequently either directly corrupt or under the unwitting influence of false advertising from Purdue Pharmaceuticals. When I had my wisdom teeth pulled an…

Please check "The Rat Park drug experiment" [1][2]

[1] http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/rat-park/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#366

Post by uiri » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:24 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #344

uiri wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing a measure in dollars with a measure in people. Yes, per capita expenditure on prescription medication is high in the US. Most other countries have a national health care system which negotiates the price for the whole country. The US market is where pharmaceutical companies expect to recoup their R&D costs, which makes drugs more expensive in the US than anywhere else. This effectively means that the…

> You're comparing a measure in dollars with a measure in people. I'm not parent, but I'm sure this is intentional as the consequences of such a scenario are easy to extrapolate... > The US market is where pharmaceutical companies expect to recoup their R&D costs. They could do this in two ways - having high margins on their drugs, and/or selling a lot of drugs. It is no surprise to see pharma lobbying against tight…

I think that they have both high margins on drugs (my gut estimate would be ten times what the rest of the world pays, but it looks like it is ordinarily only 2-5 times [0]) and they're selling a lot of drugs. It is disingenuous to claim that the US consumes 9 times more prescription drugs than the world average. The reality is probably closer to 2-5 times more drugs and that these drugs are 2-5 times more expensive by virtue of being sold in the US.

[0] https://www.vox.com/a/health-prices

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#367

Post by draw_down » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

provemewrong wrote: post #342

VonGuard wrote: post #322

I am almost ashamed to admit I have read these forums for years as a sort of exercise in voyeuristic schadenfreude. I just love reading about drug culture, watching drug movies, etc. Just like I love gangster movies. I can't explain it. A few things I have learned: /r/glassine is probably the most interesting. They rate heroin bags in the Pittsburg area. It's supposed to be for everywhere, but it's mostly Pennsylvani…

Me too. Besides what you mentioned, I'm particularly fond of /r/mdma, /r/psychonaut and /r/rationalpsychonaut (for discussions about psychedelics sans spirituality and religion). Also /r/nootropics. And /r/drugs in general. Don't forget /r/trees, which is of course the gateway subreddit, but it's rather boring in comparison.

Trees is just a bunch of people posting their bowls and where they toked up on a hike. A lot of them likely live in legalized states. I'd say not even close. (The "gateway" thing was a nice touch though.)

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#368

Post by Kurtz79 » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:48 PM UTC

slfnflctd wrote: post #363

_acme wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer 'very little effort' to get a doctor to write for an opioid.

Every single one of these threads or news articles blathers on and on about how all these clueless/evil doctors are hand-in-hand with Big Bad Pharma just tossing opiate prescriptions at everyone who walks in the door. At this point it's ridiculous, because the few outfits who did anything like this stopped or were shut down years ago. The pendulum has swung in the other direction-- doctors have been inundated with th…

The few articles I read on the subject are actually quite clear that the current crisis is due to the increased control on prescriptions, and some talk about the side effects on people with actual needs:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/12/prescription...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/ng-interactive/2016/may/...

"The simplistic idea was, 'Oh, this is all about prescription opioids, and therefore that's all we need to do: reduce the supply of prescription opioids and we'll reduce all these deaths and people won't become addicted,'" said Alexander Walley, a physician and director of addiction consultation services at Boston Medical Center.

"Well, what we're seeing now is that even as you reduce access to prescription opioids, you're seeing an explosion of heroin use and heroin overdoses ."

Still, it's hard for someone that has not experienced these conditions to understand how prescribing these highly addictive substances could be justified.

Is it the only form of treatment ? How is treatment handled in other countries ?

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#369

Post by _acme » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

gsdfg4gsdg wrote: post #257

_acme wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the doctor just say "Here, have these drugs" or did he/she prescribe the "potentially addictive" medication for a medical issue that should have been treated with that medication? Just not taking medication that your doctor thinks is necessary is not a good choice; you rarely know more than your doctor about the risk/reward profile of the medication.

That's not true at all. Drug companies bribe prominent doctors with multi-million dollar payments to convince other doctors that drugs are safer and more widely applicable than they actually are. If you refuse to take an opioid painkiller for fear of developing addiction, you are empirically demonstrating that you know more care more than your doctor about the risk/reward profile of the medication. http://www.nybooks…

What if you are actually in pain? In that case, it might be fully rational to take the potentially addictive opioid painkiller, despite the possibility of developing an addiction.

Re: How a Reddit forum has become a lifeline to opioid addicts in the US

#370

Post by _acme » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 2:02 PM UTC

gsdfg4gsdg wrote: post #258

Chardok wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly believe drug addiction is a symptom of a greater issue in someone's life. There is no person who wakes up and says "I think I'll get addicted to heroin today"; it becomes a means of escape and relief from something that gradually turns into its own monster and creates a terrible cycle of dependence. By cutting out the time and money needed to "feed the beast" while providing professional help, they can bre…

The vast majority of heroin addicts today started with prescription painkillers. Many of them went into a doctor's office and took the pill that was prescribed to them by a trusted community member with a diploma on the wall. The problem was that these doctors were frequently either directly corrupt or under the unwitting influence of false advertising from Purdue Pharmaceuticals. When I had my wisdom teeth pulled an…

What does the manufacturer of OxyContin (Purdue) have to do with you being prescribed Vicodin? And the world generally agrees that a just society wouldn't execute anyone. And the greatest issue in your life was that you were prescribed some pills you didn't need to take, just in case you had been in pain? That's a pretty good life.