Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
1–10 of 48 posts
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#2I've long believed that free will is illusory. Empirical evidence includes studies that suggest that we may make decisions before we're actually aware of them (See Benjamin Libet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet) Your conscious mind is like a 6 year in the back seat with the toy steering wheel, pretending he's driving and making up stories about where he's taking us.
Despite that, I can't actually live my life as though I really have no free will. I tried it (briefly) as an experiment, and I merely sank into a sort of post hoc analysis of everything I did. "I was supposed to do that. That's what my unconscious made me do. Etc..." Indeed, I believe that free will is inseparable from identity to such an extent that even if we find unassailable proof that it's merely an illusion, we'll continue about our lives, "choosing," as if nothing ever happened.
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#3Is it possible to have a sincere discussion about this? If I falsely believe in free will then surely I don't have a choice in the matter.
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#4I have always wondered how well you can actually control psychological studies about why someone is thinking something.
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#5I've long believed that free will is illusory. Empirical evidence includes studies that suggest that we may make decisions before we're actually aware of them (See Benjamin Libet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet ) Your conscious mind is like a 6 year in the back seat with the toy steering wheel, pretending he's driving and making up stories about where he's taking us. Despite that, I can't actually live m…
There is a fascinating book by Julian Jaynes called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind that goes even deeper into this area.
Basically, he says, our two minds were previously split and "you" would "hear" your other mind issuing instructions about what to do. (Much like Snow Crash and the nam-shubs of Enki).
Over time the two merged, and we ended up with a single stream of consciousness. Among other things, he says, we can see the remnants in people experiencing "the voice of God", and the way we are extremely susceptible to commands spoken closely into our right ears.
To be clear: modern theories of consciousness and psychology have v. little time for Jaynes, but as a philosophical curio/thought game it's great fun.
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#6Is it possible to have a sincere discussion about this? If I falsely believe in free will then surely I don't have a choice in the matter.
Even if you have no free will, that doesn't mean that your mind can't be changed by arguments.
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#7I've long believed that free will is illusory. Empirical evidence includes studies that suggest that we may make decisions before we're actually aware of them (See Benjamin Libet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet ) Your conscious mind is like a 6 year in the back seat with the toy steering wheel, pretending he's driving and making up stories about where he's taking us. Despite that, I can't actually live m…
I looked at this article, but I don't think the experiment proves as much as Libet claims it does. Neither he nor subsequent researchers seem to have gone beyond toy problems (what EEG activity appears in someone writing or programming?).
Also, I find it hard to believe that free will "lives" in one or another part of the brain; neither determinism nor randomness is freedom, and a physical "organ of free will" would have to be either deterministic (from macro-scale physics) or random (from quantum-scale activity).
I agree that living without free will is probably psychologically insupportable; even Muslims and Calvinists, who believe in double predestination (and Marxists, who believe in historical determinism), live as if free will was true. (Read _The Pilgrim's Progress_ and tell me that Bunyan really believed Puritan doctrines...)
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#8I have always wondered how well you can actually control psychological studies about why someone is thinking something.
In any case this area of research seems to open up a lot of opportunities for snake oil consultants.
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#9The law as it has stood for centuries has imposed different degrees of liability based on one's mental state and this is often tied to moral standards.
Just a sampling: (a) it takes "malice aforethought" or premeditation to support higher degrees of a murder conviction; (b) one must act with "scienter" (intent or knowledge of wrongdoing) to be held liable for various intentional torts such as fraud; (c) punitive damages may be awarded to punish a wrongdoer for conduct that is outrageous or wanton or done in reckless disregard of the rights of others.
When I read reports such as this piece, I always wonder how the science can be real and yet have such a disconnect with real-world application, i.e., if it is true that we fundamentally don't control our actions, why should we be held responsible for them depending on varying states of mind? Why should we incur larger penalties if we "intended" to take a wrong action if our intention is ultimately based on unconscious stimuli over which we have no control? Why should it be wrong to steal something if an uncontrollable impulse made us do it?
Given these sorts of disconnects, I wonder if society doesn't treat science of this type effectively as if it were really more like philosophy - interesting to contemplate but often having no real-world application. Certainly, if it is true science (verifiable, repeatable, etc.), the law should change to follow suit. Yet how would that happen without chaos ensuing in the areas of crimes, torts, etc. where people are supposed to be held responsible for their wrongs and particularly if they intended to commit them?
Re: Think You're Operating on Free Will? Think Again
#10Is it possible to have a sincere discussion about this? If I falsely believe in free will then surely I don't have a choice in the matter.
Even if you have no free will, that doesn't mean that your mind can't be changed by arguments.
But, he can only be persuaded by the arguments that will necessarily persuade him, not necessarily those which correspond to reality. What merit is it to simply find the right button to push?