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Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

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Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#11

Post by e40 »

metalliqaz wrote: post #8
crispyambulance wrote: post #5

Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, let alone politicians. There is one thing that just enough politicians do understand, however, and that's money. In their pockets. From ghouls who will profit handsomely when online access in the USA becomes effectively equivalent to shitty cable-tv service.

Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the…

That's just another example of pulling the ladder up behind you, once you reach safety. Happens in many domains (immigrations, most famously).

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#12

Post by jolux »

metalliqaz wrote: post #8
crispyambulance wrote: post #5

Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, let alone politicians. There is one thing that just enough politicians do understand, however, and that's money. In their pockets. From ghouls who will profit handsomely when online access in the USA becomes effectively equivalent to shitty cable-tv service.

Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the…

Trump doesn't care about listening to anyone, least of all those who put him in office. Republicans in general don't either, or they wouldn't be cutting everyone's healthcare.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#13

Post by larrydag »

honestoHeminway wrote: post #4

The mistake was for the internet to grow on the ISPs infrastructure in the first place. Now they will murder anything new by slowing it to a crawl. So to succeed, on must have superior compression- and/or a alternative infrastructure. Or- one could try to hijack the fastlanes.

I'm for free markets and competition but I have to agree with you here. Like the US interstate road system the fixed line broadband, especially the big fiber pipes, probably needs to be taken over by a quasi-federal program similar to the Post Office. There seems to be too much of a monopoly or oligarchy collusion taken place. Broadband is not improving with competition currently.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#14

Post by metalliqaz »

jolux wrote: post #12
metalliqaz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the…

Trump doesn't care about listening to anyone, least of all those who put him in office. Republicans in general don't either, or they wouldn't be cutting everyone's healthcare.

They listen to their base. They can't afford to lose the base. It's the outreach to moderates that only happens during campaigns.

For what it's worth, they aren't actually cutting health care. There's a reason they can't get a repeal through even though they control both houses of congress and have a rubber stamp waiting in the white house.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#15

Post by hartator »

I don't see what this fuss is all about. If Facebook wants to offer cheaper Internet with their services prioritized, why not?

Plus Internet is far from being neutral right now. Emails got deliver depending on your server IPs. CDNs already pay to be hosted by ISPs for a fast lane. Torrents don't reach the full capacity of your bandwidth. Etc.

The case against government regulations for the Internet is easy to make: Easier to start an ISP, cheaper services for the end consumers, less government expenses to enforce all of that, etc.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#16

Post by fredley »

hartator wrote: post #15

I don't see what this fuss is all about. If Facebook wants to offer cheaper Internet with their services prioritized, why not? Plus Internet is far from being neutral right now. Emails got deliver depending on your server IPs. CDNs already pay to be hosted by ISPs for a fast lane. Torrents don't reach the full capacity of your bandwidth. Etc. The case against government regulations for the Internet is easy to make: E…

Because the fear is that the internet will become like TV: you can't buy access to 'TV', despite the fact there's no technical limitation. You have to buy packages, from different providers in order to get what you want. You have to sign up to hefty subscription packages with loads of bundled shite just to watch 7 hours of Game of Thrones.

Currently you buy access to the internet, and that's all internet, at equal priority. You can connect to my little $6 VPS or raspberry pi as easily as you can to Google or Facebook. And that's a great thing. If I want to get my show on TV, I have to negotiate with different channels and studios to try and get it broadcast, anywhere. And even then it would probably be on some shitty channel with tiny viewership, interspersed with ads for medication and financial scams.

On the internet I can publish on my own terms, and anybody else with an internet connection can view it, on my terms. Undermining net neutrality threatens this.

In the UK some ISPs are providing 'free unlimited access to WhatsApp'. It's just the start of a road that leads to the default model changes from paying for internet access, to most people getting free 'internet', restricted to just those companies who pay the ISP instead to provide free access. This is a slippery slope: once it starts, it will continue until smaller sites are no longer visible to people without 'premium' internet - who will be a minority. This is bad.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#17

Post by true_religion »

metalliqaz wrote: post #14
jolux wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump doesn't care about listening to anyone, least of all those who put him in office. Republicans in general don't either, or they wouldn't be cutting everyone's healthcare.

They listen to their base. They can't afford to lose the base. It's the outreach to moderates that only happens during campaigns. For what it's worth, they aren't actually cutting health care. There's a reason they can't get a repeal through even though they control both houses of congress and have a rubber stamp waiting in the white house.

To be fair, it's their own healthcare plan. The Republican party held Congress during Obama's administration.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#19

Post by splintercell »

metalliqaz wrote: post #8
crispyambulance wrote: post #5

Net neutrality is dying because no one has been able to make a compelling case for it that can be understood by constituents, let alone politicians. There is one thing that just enough politicians do understand, however, and that's money. In their pockets. From ghouls who will profit handsomely when online access in the USA becomes effectively equivalent to shitty cable-tv service.

Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the…

> Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office.

The thing about human mind is that there is no way to truly stop the way it reasons other than to counter it with reason. You can't really change someone's mind by smacking them in the face until their mind is changed take for instance.

Alt-right movement would have come around with or without Internet and with or without widespread censorship. In fact there is already widespread social and technological censorship against alt-right views, and this is one of the biggest reasons why they have an appeal.

A bunch of my Libertarian friends have to do the same, our opinions aren't really understood or accepted by a lot of liberals, so artful trolling at heavily moderated internet groups and communities is something they all learn to do sooner or later.

Yes, IF there is a moderation of opinions on the internet at the network level (which I don't believe would happen), then controversial opinions like that of alt-right are the ones which would suffer disproportionately more. However, that is much easily handled rather than having govt level laws regarding the control of the Internet.

Re: Net neutrality is dying with a whimper

#20

Post by rrmm »

e40 wrote: post #11
metalliqaz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, isn't it, that a free and neutral Internet is one of the key technologies that allowed the acerbic alt-right movement to bubble up from the fringes, to become grassroots, and then mainstream, finally to put Trump in office. Then, his team gleefully work to destroy it. I suppose they think that greedy, unfair measures that currently benefit themselves will never be handed to their opponents. That's a lesson the…

That's just another example of pulling the ladder up behind you, once you reach safety. Happens in many domains (immigrations, most famously).

But they haven't reached safety. They will be censored into oblivion by large corps who don't want to be seen endorsing/promoting that content, and any rival services they set up to fill those gaps will wither on the vine.

There will be strange bedfellows to be had in this particular fight.

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