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Why I left Japan after 10 years

blog.uchujin.co.uk

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Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#151

Post by 4bpp »

> Japanese people often told me that Kabukicho (...) was the most dangerous place in Japan and often asked if I wasn’t scared of the Yakuza (Japanese Mafia) who openly parade the area.

> My reply was always a simple one, “The Yakuza and Kabukicho aren’t scary, if you don’t mess with them they don’t mess with you. The Police? Now that’s a different story. Hands down scariest thing in Japan is the Police & the Justice system”.

So he responded to a low-key compliment by insulting the interlocutor's country? If this is representative of how he interacted with people there, I'm not surprised that he was unpopular.

Criticising the police is an exercise in civic bonding in the Anglo-American sphere these days, but I don't think it's much of a thing in Japan (and they tend to be very proud of their public safety climate). Was the author simply unaware of this, did he think that only his own culture's priorities regarding what it is okay to criticise matter, or did he not realise that people tend to identify strongly with at least some aspects of their countries at all? (Certainly, the UK has its own set of holy cows: back when I lived there, I learned of one the hard way after suggesting during a casual conversation that the political system of the UK would have turned out better if it had gone through at least one violent revolution in the past two-or-so centuries as all the other European countries did.)

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#152

Post by valentinebm »

danso wrote: post #112
valentinebm wrote: post #65

Quick remark: the Chinese text on the 5th picture (below 'JAPANESE ONLY') reads '謝絕中中國人'. This literally means 'Decline Chinese people', suggesting that the place is specifically not willing to receive to Chinese visitors. Thought it might be interesting to point out.

Someone else in this discussion has pointed out that it makes sense that the Chinese is targeted at Chinese, as most English speaking folk don't know Chinese. And the English phrase is purposefully broad because English-speaking foreigners could be from a huge variety of countries.

Makes sense.

Still, wondering why the Chinese is purposefully so narrow and doesn't read '谢绝外国人‘ (no foreigners) instead of '谢绝中国人' (no Chinese people).

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#153

Post by brucephillips »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #150
brucephillips wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was surprising. What is surprising is how every respondent thus far has misinterpreted what I said.

After having followed this thread so far, I still don't get what message you actually intended to convey. It's obvious that talking English in the US is not on a par with talking Japanese in Japan and also not on a par with talking English in Japan. Talking to someone in English in the US is compatible with considering that person a foreigner and compatible with not considering that person a foreigner, whereas talkin…

> whereas talking English by default in Japan (or any other non-English speaking country) means that you take that person as a foreigner

Exactly that. If you're white in Japan, people will speak to you in English, which indicates they see you as a foreigner...forever. "forever foreigner".

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#154

Post by patio11 »

I have had approximately 10 involuntary interactions with the Japanese cops over the years. Here's my typical advice for foreign residents: you can pick your battles but you can't pick your police counterparties. The overwhelming likelihood if you are arbitrarily stopped by a police officer is that you were stopped for a reason which is outside the parameters of the law. Being vindicated by the law is something which is going to be extremely difficult and high-stress for you. There exists the non-trivial chance that you will not be vindicated even if you are in the right.

The officer expects nearly instant, ingratiating compliance. If you perform instant, ingratiating compliance, you will likely exit the conversation quickly and with your safety intact. If you consider your dignity more important than your safety, that is your call, but know that you are making a high-variance decision.

The intermediate steps of escalating a routine police encounter into a non-routine police encounter, for example with the eventual goal of being vindicated by the legal system, may involve legally or socially significant events such as an arrest. You very urgently do not want to be arrested. It will have outsized social impacts on e.g. your employment and housing situations and will be looked on with extreme displeasure by Immigration.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#155

Post by mahyarm »

hulahoof wrote: post #56
JMCQ87 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that's an outrageous idea? I imagine lots of (young) Japanese people would look for better working conditions abroad, if they only had better English skills.

I did think it was outrageous, however I didn't consider it from this angle. If you were the Japanese government, what method would you use to keep your professionals? They are a country that isn't embracing mass immigration, with an ageing population and slowing economy..

The level of english has been like that even when they were in economic boom times 30+ years ago. I don't think it's any specific conspiracy.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#156

Post by Klockan »

markburns wrote: post #76
brucephillips wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As the use of the word Japanese is often irrelevant in this post. You think the word "Japanese" is irrelevant in a post describing Japanese culture? Cultures have traits. Some of those traits can be good. Others can be bad. It doesn't mean all of those people exhibit those traits. We shouldn't judge individuals based on those prejudices, but it's equally mistaken to fault people from talking about cultures generall…

It's a difficult nuance in the point I'm trying to make, so I apologise. It's probably not a great analogy but, I think that if you were in e.g. the USA and there was use of White American Judicial System, or White American Police Force or something along those lines it would really scream out at you. I realise he is out of Japan now and the blog post is not necessarily targeting people in Japan, but a lot of foreign…

> It's probably not a great analogy but, I think that if you were in e.g. the USA and there was use of White American Judicial System, or White American Police Force or something along those lines it would really scream out at you.

We definitely call it American Police, Canadian Police, French Police, Japanese Police, German Police etc.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#157

Post by fiblye »

brucephillips wrote: post #88
fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

It highly depends on the city. In Kyoto, people only speak to me in English. I've even seen asians get talked to in English there when their fashion/behavior stands out as slightly non-Japanese. Everywhere else, I get straight, everyday Japanese thrown at me.

Honestly, it could very well depend on the city how you get received. I live in a fairly rural area and it's adapt or go home here. If you live in this area, people seem to just assume you are decently adapted and don't need to be handled like an outsider.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#158

Post by m_mueller »

saiya-jin wrote: post #102
Symbiote wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, Switzerland is known to be particularly unwelcoming to foreigners. "Out of 67 countries, Switzerland ranks 64th for friendliness and making newcomers feel welcome" http://lenews.ch/2016/09/02/expats-in-switzerland-arent-feel...

Disclaimer - I am a foreigner in Switzerland. It's a bit distorted - it is a country with by far the highest immigration population in whole europe, if not whole world. If they simply didn't want foreigners in their country, they can tweak working/residence permit situation so that most wouldn't qualify. They do and welcome them/us, BUT - you have to adapt and learn the language(s). Many, especially english-speaking…

As a Swiss - thank you for seeing it like this! I do think that Switzerland in general should be more welcoming to immigrants, but at the same time I'd say that the somewhat more forceful stance towards integration has proven more successful compared to what's happening in neighbouring countries. Being treated with the same harshness as Swiss treat other Swiss can be quite shocking at first, especially compared to the warm welcome extended in many other cultures, the US included - but at some point you start appreciating it. I've also been in Japan now for years and I'm well aware of the fact that I could never fully integrate here, while vice versa this is luckily not true for my Japanese wife in Switzerland.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#159

Post by trevyn »

fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

>how many asians in America get asked,"so, where are you from?" whenever they meet someone?

Caucasians in America get asked this all the time too.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#160

Post by sudhirc »

markburns wrote: post #34

It's kind of ironic how much he generalises Japanese people. See bad thing - link to Japanese people as a whole or in general, rather than the individual. It's an easy mistake to make. Especially if you do ever hear it in the inverse direction. "Foreigners do X or Y", etc. If he aimed to replace generic instances of 'Japanese people' or 'in Japan' with specific reference to the instance or person, I think he'd have h…

Absolutely agree, a while ago somebody asked this question on Quora[1] and most of the answers are either positive or overwhelmingly positive.

[1]https://www.quora.com/What-is-an-Only-in-Japan-moment

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