Why I left Japan after 10 years • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#121

Post by xfer » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:40 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #88

fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

What? That's because english is considered universal language and they don't want to presume that you know japanese well enough for a conversation?

That doesn't happen to asians in the US, you know maybe because they don't know the asian language?

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#122

Post by S4M » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:40 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #88

fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

Well I live in Spain (Barcelona) and look Asian. It often happens to me that people start a conversation with me in English.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#123

Post by lkramer » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:40 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #109

lkramer wrote: post #69

I lived in Japan for 4 years, and afterwards felt in many ways similar, it's a place that can take a lot out of you, especially if you have expectations of fitting in. That said, in my 4 years there, the police was never anything but polite and friendly (I was never once stopped for a bag search or gaijin card check either) and now living in London, I find the police here, while polite and professional, much more int…

> with their open carry of massive guns This is an odd comment for a country (and indeed city) where the police are not routinely armed.

I guess it's largely a response to terrorism, but I routinely see heavily armed policemen at various tube stations.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#124

Post by pm215 » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:41 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #109

lkramer wrote: post #69

I lived in Japan for 4 years, and afterwards felt in many ways similar, it's a place that can take a lot out of you, especially if you have expectations of fitting in. That said, in my 4 years there, the police was never anything but polite and friendly (I was never once stopped for a bag search or gaijin card check either) and now living in London, I find the police here, while polite and professional, much more int…

> with their open carry of massive guns This is an odd comment for a country (and indeed city) where the police are not routinely armed.

As a UK citizen, I find that when I see armed police it is inherently intimidating, because the cultural expectation is that police are unarmed and so it represents a massive escalation. (Seeing them in the UK is becoming more common these days as a counter-terrorism thing, though it is still rare, thankfully.)

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#125

Post by brucephillips » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:41 AM UTC

xfer wrote: post #121

brucephillips wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

What? That's because english is considered universal language and they don't want to presume that you know japanese well enough for a conversation? That doesn't happen to asians in the US, you know maybe because they don't know the asian language?

> That's because english is considered universal language and they don't want to presume that you know japanese well enough for a conversation?

Yes, which is a source of white people being "forever foreigners" in Japan, which is exactly my point.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#126

Post by TheArcane » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:42 AM UTC

Jamieee wrote: post #14

ThrowAwayInd wrote: post #2

I don't know Man, pople visit India here and have very disrespectful behavior, most US and UK people. Most other countries are okay. They think they are more "civilized" and hence get to lecture people on what to do and what not to do. Fix your own problems first! And even when you do, don't lecture us, we'll fix our "problems" ourselves.

I was under the impression that India was considered one of the most racist/sexist countries on the planet.

Definitely one of the most.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#127

Post by Tharkun » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:42 AM UTC

sho wrote: post #57

dintech wrote: post #10

Most of thos stuff, you work out after a few months in Japan. I get the feeling there is more that the author's personal situation that he isn't saying. After 10 years, I really expect a deeper and more nuanced critique. The most difficult experiences in Japan come from not really knowing people more than what they want to show you. The Japanese are masters of the 'public face'. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_…

> I get the feeling there is more that the author's personal situation that he isn't saying Yes, I definitely think so too. And the article about cycling in tokyo he links to [1] hints at this more. I've cycled very extensively in tokyo over the years i lived there and the experience he describes sounds, ironically, totally foreign to me. Tokyo's a wonderful and extremely safe place to cycle, which is of course why m…

I had the same reaction reading their cyclist rant. Even the video made no sense. It show a couple of cyclists committing minor trafic infractions, but apparently those are "criminally irresponsible" acts.

It's their blog, so they're welcome to bitch and moan as much as they want. But this strikes me as one of those people who are frequently told to lighten up.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#128

Post by brucephillips » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:43 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #115

brucephillips wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

That's because America has many Asian residents that were actually born there and speak the language natively, whereas the gaijin in Japan are almost all not fluent in Japanese. How is it surprising that people would try the most likely language first?

I never said it was surprising.

What is surprising is how every respondent thus far has misinterpreted what I said.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#129

Post by jsmthrowaway » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:45 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #88

fiblye wrote: post #40

I heard the "if you don't like it, leave line" from people all the time in America. Even with the pettiest of political disagreements, people say it. So then I went to Japan and haven't received or heard of anyone receiving similar vitriol aside from the OP. A foreign coworker (same race and nationality as me) endlessly complains about racism, discrimination, and being stared at here. I've experienced none of it. I'm…

> It's just a matter of being on the other end of it now. Not quite. It's a different degree. When I was in Japan, for example, no Japanese person would start a conversation with me in Japanese. It was always English. That mostly doesn't happen to Asian residents in the US.

Keep in mind that the US was entirely built from immigration, though, and most of us realize that the part after the hyphen is just as important as the part before it and often represents several generations of heritage. In other cultures, immigration might be more abnormal, resulting in folks uncertainly opening a hailing frequency with the strange probably-tourist Englishman they’ve encountered, whereas in America it’s quite trivial to glance past physical features and lead off in English.

(Helps that it’s English, specifically, too.)

In another light, I usually have a sense for whether my English will find purchase before speaking because American culture has subtle cues and tics even in the way one carries themselves. I don’t have the perspective of reversing the situation, but I’d totally buy a scenario where the same sense is difficult to ascertain inside other cultures. Then you have to think about which possibility is more polite/offensive between assuming their language or trying yours, especially in various cultures; we certainly look at this differently, given the first point.

Re: Why I left Japan after 10 years

#130

Post by gbog » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 9:45 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #68

gbog wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture have traits, yes, and it's extremely difficult to name them with the words of another culture, and judging them bad or good from another culture is adventurous, except for obvious violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan. In the first paragraph the author says it is impossible to critique Japan traits. That simply shows that he or she has understood nothing of the Asian way o…

> except for obviously violations of core human values which I don't think we would find in Japan Yes, we would. The Japanese penal system has a presumption of guilt.

That's not core to me. The litigation system is highly cultural, can be a village assembly before the eldest, a full judiciary system as we have in the West, can be based on Roman law or jurisprudence. Presumption of guilt is just another way.