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The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

propublica.org

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Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#171

Post by valuearb »

jessriedel wrote: post #124
valuearb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your logic would be fine if manufacturers were required to replace expired pills with new ones. But they aren't, so early expiry dates impose enormous economic costs on consumers of drugs, while manufacturers get the massive benefits of selling drugs twice to same consumer.

This is addressed in my second paragraph.

No it's not. Essentially you are saying it's ok to have an "expiration tax" and that it doesn't change the market. I'm saying the expiration tax does change the market, and raises the cost for the consumer, even if it's factored into their purchase. Typically consumers don't have the ability to substitute complements, and manufacturers products are patent protected, so it's another way to raise prices and increase manufacturer profits.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#173

Post by arkades »

Lordarminius wrote: post #160
BurningFrog wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a startup idea: Develop an "indicator pill" that changes color at the same rate as an individual medication. It would be in (or part of) the bottle with the other pills, and be customizable to react to humidity, temperature and time in the same way as the particular medication.

> Here's a startup idea:... How feasible would that be for thousands of different drugs with hundreds of thousands of different formulations and chemical compositions and various storage factors ?

In fairness, about 200 drugs account for the majority of stuff sitting on Americans' countertops. No need to hit thousands to get pretty good coverage.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#174

Post by _rpd »

t0mbstone wrote: post #152
slr555 wrote: post #66

This issue is a conundrum. Most drugs don't fall off a cliff of efficacy when they reach their expiration date. There are drugs such as tetracyclines that should never be used past their expiration dates because they degrade into toxic compounds. Certain classes of drugs such as anti-arrhythmics or drugs like warfarin are dosing critical to the point where I would not want them if they were out of date. I worked in p…

Wouldn't the real solution here be to put real expiration dates on things that can harm you, and real expiration dates on things that haven't actually expired? Like a "dangerous to use after 01/01/2019" label on things that actually are dangerous. Other items could have labels like, "Safe for use until 01/01/2025 - Effectiveness may be degraded after 09/05/2019"

Any such labeling change would likely result in decades of litigation over the precise meaning of each term when someone inevitably comes to harm while taking the drug. From the manufacturer's point of view it's cheaper and possibly safer to use a single clear good/bad date.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#175

Post by pessimizer »

agumonkey wrote: post #68
slr555 wrote: post #66

This issue is a conundrum. Most drugs don't fall off a cliff of efficacy when they reach their expiration date. There are drugs such as tetracyclines that should never be used past their expiration dates because they degrade into toxic compounds. Certain classes of drugs such as anti-arrhythmics or drugs like warfarin are dosing critical to the point where I would not want them if they were out of date. I worked in p…

I wonder if a single rule 'no consumption past date' is a safeguard to insure simple behavior from population. If people started to think some drugs can and some cant they might indulge into trying random stuff.

If people know that many expiration dates are untrue, wouldn't that make them more likely to experiment and accidentally take expired drugs that actually lose effectiveness or become toxic out-of-date? Expiration dates that are explicit and trustworthy would make people less likely to try random stuff, not more.

I don't think you make people less likely to experiment by making experimentation successful most of the time.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#176

Post by TuringNYC »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #52
harshreality wrote: post #4

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

> What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured" Relax, this is the real world, not a computer based series of 0s and 1s. Any such compound begins drifting off from the original specs as soon as it leaves the factory - and in a very real sense it's not exactly at 100% at any time post the moment of manufacture. The question is what kind of deviation can be tolerated.

Well said. Another aspect: Having the option of a 90% effective drug vs a 100% effective drug you DONT have because you cannot afford.

There was a time in my life where our family lived dollar to dollar and skipped medical care due to cost. We would easily settle for 90% efficacy.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#177

Post by deelowe »

ballenf wrote: post #94
slr555 wrote: post #66

This issue is a conundrum. Most drugs don't fall off a cliff of efficacy when they reach their expiration date. There are drugs such as tetracyclines that should never be used past their expiration dates because they degrade into toxic compounds. Certain classes of drugs such as anti-arrhythmics or drugs like warfarin are dosing critical to the point where I would not want them if they were out of date. I worked in p…

The article states with absolute certainty that no patient has ever been harmed by an expired drug. Not doubting your point about tetracycline, but how much would a patient need to ingest to be harmed? Then there's the argument that the reason no one's been harmed is because the policy is working. Harm due to unavailability of drugs or higher costs are much harder to track, of course. Yet another case of a balance be…

I thought antibiotics lose their efficacy part there due date

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#178

Post by [deleted] »

ballenf wrote: post #94
slr555 wrote: post #66

This issue is a conundrum. Most drugs don't fall off a cliff of efficacy when they reach their expiration date. There are drugs such as tetracyclines that should never be used past their expiration dates because they degrade into toxic compounds. Certain classes of drugs such as anti-arrhythmics or drugs like warfarin are dosing critical to the point where I would not want them if they were out of date. I worked in p…

The article states with absolute certainty that no patient has ever been harmed by an expired drug. Not doubting your point about tetracycline, but how much would a patient need to ingest to be harmed? Then there's the argument that the reason no one's been harmed is because the policy is working. Harm due to unavailability of drugs or higher costs are much harder to track, of course. Yet another case of a balance be…

[deleted]

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#179

Post by yomly »

Kalium wrote: post #161
techthroway443 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems simple enough, just extend the expiration dates on the meds that don't turn toxic and that still work. The issue here though is that it's not in the drug manufacturers interest to have super long dates. Putting labels that expire sooner means they can push higher volume.

There's also the not-irrelevant issue that testing is slow and potentially other than free. How do you find out when a drug expires? You have a bunch of it sit around and test it periodically, right? I assume that would be done after bringing a drug to market, otherwise drugs could easily be delayed 10+ years if they're shelf-stable.

I would expect the chemistry to be characterised well enough to the point where you shouldn't need clinical tests to know it's degredation profile...

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#180

Post by bluehazed »

deelowe wrote: post #177
ballenf wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article states with absolute certainty that no patient has ever been harmed by an expired drug. Not doubting your point about tetracycline, but how much would a patient need to ingest to be harmed? Then there's the argument that the reason no one's been harmed is because the policy is working. Harm due to unavailability of drugs or higher costs are much harder to track, of course. Yet another case of a balance be…

I thought antibiotics lose their efficacy part there due date

Some even become toxic, like tetracyclines!
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