Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having "not utterly failed" for 240 years is a fairly big accomplishment, precisely because the lifespan of many other societal organizing principles is about equal to a human lifespan (~80 years).
Uh it kinda failed big time in the '20s and '30s
Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
201–210 of 238 posts
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure there is. The idea isn't to quantize to arbitrarily long times, but to make it long enough compared to the time of information generation and more importantly, communication. Otherwise you may as well give up the notion of a common market. The number may not be a minute but it sure as hell ain't a nanosecond.
The real world is continuous. It cannot be quantized.
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not the point. The point is that the industry is vanishingly small compared to Wall Street proper, yet it has an outsize target on its head due to FUD and emotional appeals like the ones presented in the article. Furthermore, in exchange for "taking" that money from the market, they enhance liquidity, which is directly helpful for price discovery and facilitating trading among both retail and institutional inv…
Liquidity is willingness to make a trade others aren't. To be useful, it has to linger in the order book for a long time. If you're winning a race by milliseconds , you are trying to interpose yourself into a trade that was already going to happen that day.
This is an inaccurate framing of how high frequency trading propagates liquidity in an otherwise illiquid (or strictly less liquid) market. The claim is not that liquidity is contributed on a strictly trade by trade basis, but rather than the low-latency activity has meta-reactive effects owing to enhanced price discovery that increase overall participation by drawing in other traders at different time resolutions. For example, where there may a stagnant order book on one equity (and consequently, few human traders able to fulfill orders without significant pricing penalties), the same order book may draw in competing market makers. They attempt to predict the next price movement - some win and some lose on the immediate sequence of trades, but the consequent activity narrows the bid/ask spread by heightening local participation in the order book and improving the pricing confidence. This has practical ramifications for "human" time resolutions, because the human traders now have a better opportunity to fulfill orders without overpaying. This in turn reduces overcautious traders from participating, and so on and so forth.
For what it's worth, your line of argument has been rehashed for years now on Hacker News, going back to when Chris Stucchio wrote his HFT apologia. Instead of lazily linking to that thread, I'll do one better by walking through research on the subject. Fortunately there is a handy paper that explicitly examines the question, "how does the interaction of these traders in the millisecond environment impact the quality of markets that human investors can observe?"[1] The data is constructed using NASDAQ TotalView with equities in the S&P500 in periods of varying volatility. Both reactive and periodic trading algorithms are reviewed.
Here are a few critical passages:
By tracking submissions, cancellations, and executions that can be associated with each other, we create a measure of low-latency activity. We use a simultaneous equation framework to examine how the intensity of low latency activity affects market quality measures. We find that an increase in low-latency activity lowers short-term volatility, reduces quoted spreads and the total price impact of trades, and increases depth in the limit order book.
IV.B. Results Panel A of Table 4 presents the estimated coefficients of the pooled system side-by-side for the 2007 and 2008 sample periods. First we note that the two instruments have the 25 expected signs and are highly significant. Specifically, the coefficient a2 indicates that when liquidity off NASDAQ is higher, our NASDAQ market quality measures show higher liquidity and lower volatility. Similarly, the coefficient b2 is positive in all specifications, indicating that higher low-latency activity in a specific stock in an interval is associated with higher low-latency activity in other stocks on the NASDAQ system. Second, the estimated b1 coefficients tell us that low-latency activity is attracted to more liquid and less volatile stocks.
The fact that low-latency trading decreases short-term volatility and contributes to depth in the 2008 sample period where the market is relentlessly going down and there is heightened uncertainty in the economic environment is particularly noteworthy. It seems to suggest that PA activity creates a positive externality in the market at the time that the market needs it the most. Panel B of Table 4 presents roughly similar results from the estimation of the system with SpreadNotNasi as the instrument for market liquidity.
It is possible, however, that the impact of low-latency trading on market quality would differ for stocks that are somehow fundamentally dissimilar, like small versus large market capitalization stocks. Table 5 presents system estimates in subsamples consisting of four quartiles ranked by the average market capitalization over the sample period.22 There is not much pattern across the quartiles in the manner low-latency activity affects short-term volatility in the 2007 sample period. The picture in the 2008 sample is different: It appears that during more stressful times, low-latency activity helps reduce volatility in smaller stocks more than it does in larger stocks.
Lastly, Table 6 shows summary statistics for the stock-by-stock estimations. The results suggest similar conclusions concerning the effect of low-latency trading on market quality. In particular, an increase in low-latency activity decreases short-term volatility, decreases quoted spreads, and increases displayed depth in the limit order book. This is true both in the 2007 and 2008 sample periods.
_______________
1. http://people.stern.nyu.edu/jhasbrou/Research/Working%20Pape...
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are aware that HFT is essentially dead? It isnt profitable anymore and most of those firms are failing. Trading situations that allow for easy outsized profits like that disappear very fast.
Did it serve any higher purpose? Did any meaningful software/hardware advances come out of this? Has it evolved into something else now?
We sponsored the x64 port of LuaJIT and kicked off a sponsorship system for it [1]. OpenResty took nginx and integrated it with LuaJIT. Ten years later, CloudFlare started using OpenResty and LuaJIT to protect massive swathes of the Internet. This kind of butterfly effect makes me smile.
The same HFT crew discovered critical issues in the circa-2009 Linux kernel, wherein there was significant packet loss on multicast workloads [2]. We were using bleeding edge Debian/Ubuntu distros whereas much of the industry used more stable kernels (which didn't have the issue). So because of our hard work, along with much love from the incredible Eric Dumazet, we figured it out and everybody benefitted (especially RedHat and SUSE who got to put the fixed kernel in their stable releases a couple years later).
We also sponsored other open source projects, Debian packaging, etc. HFT firms from 2006-2010 were early adopters of the advanced network and computing technologies that now power the clouds (e.g. Arista, Solarflare, various acquired storage/network companies); those companies might not be around now if they didn't get those early wins from the finance community.
[1] https://luajit.org/sponsors.html [2] http://www.spinics.net/lists/netdev/msg90771.html
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no good argument for this. The problems you think it might solve...it doesn't solve. Hint: if the minute long auction closes at precisely the minute boundary at what time do you want to put your orders in?
As well as making the current bids invisible, you can reduce the auction times considerably - once per second, for instance.
That won't change anything, he who trades first still wins, HFT will still exist.
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree that it works--it's just that it hasn't utterly failed yet. Big difference. If you look at failed states, the bandits won. Argentina comes to mind, maybe Venezuela. Brazil is headed there.
Having "not utterly failed" for 240 years is a fairly big accomplishment, precisely because the lifespan of many other societal organizing principles is about equal to a human lifespan (~80 years).
No. Not even a little. The dinosaurs lasted more than a million times as long. If we talking hominids do not last half a billion years or more we are pathetic losers.
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#207More generally, consumers have been fleeced and left out to dry over the past 10 year economic cycle. Take a look at a graph of the S&P500 from 2009-2017, then look at consumer interest rates of 0.5% (in a 'high yield' savings or CD account). It simply makes no sense. We simply cannot build wealth any longer. Baby boomers had CD rates of >10% [0]. Think about that for a moment. [0] http://www.forecast-chart.com/rate-…
My aunt and uncle (who happen to be baby boomers) bought their first house in the early '80s when inflation was rampant. Their first mortgage had something like an 18% rate. It should be obvious that a 10% CD rate is worthless if inflation is nearly as high or higher.
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#208More generally, consumers have been fleeced and left out to dry over the past 10 year economic cycle. Take a look at a graph of the S&P500 from 2009-2017, then look at consumer interest rates of 0.5% (in a 'high yield' savings or CD account). It simply makes no sense. We simply cannot build wealth any longer. Baby boomers had CD rates of >10% [0]. Think about that for a moment. [0] http://www.forecast-chart.com/rate-…
> Baby boomers had CD rates of >10% [0]. Think about that for a moment. My aunt and uncle (who happen to be baby boomers) bought their first house in the early '80s when inflation was rampant. Their first mortgage had something like an 18% rate. It should be obvious that a 10% CD rate is worthless if inflation is nearly as high or higher.
Well, yes, that would be useless, but that's not what happened for most of the time with high CD ratee. The period of CD rates ranging from just under 10% to over 17% in the 1978-1984, saw inflation peak at 14.8% and spend much of the time below 5%.
Recently CD interest rates are not only low but for many years below inflation most of the time; in the period of high interest rates and high inflation, CD rates were still above inflation.
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fees on trading would not meaningfully discourage high frequency trading and would just be passed on to buyers and sellers of stock in the form of larger bid/ask spreads.
I think that's about half right. A 0.5% tax on all equities trades, which is what Bernie was proposing, would put a bunch of HFTs out of business basically overnight and at the same time dramatically increase costs for investors via 1) the tax (obviously) 2) wider spreads 3) reduced liquidity.
How many times do you trade a year? Actually perform trades? Even including mutual funds, I think it's < 100 yr.
Re: Wall Street Profits by Putting Investors in the Slow Lane
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did it serve any higher purpose? Did any meaningful software/hardware advances come out of this? Has it evolved into something else now?
I worked at an HFT firm. We didn't cure cancer, but we tried hard to improve the technical ecosystems we were a part of. Many other firms do the same. We sponsored the x64 port of LuaJIT and kicked off a sponsorship system for it [1]. OpenResty took nginx and integrated it with LuaJIT. Ten years later, CloudFlare started using OpenResty and LuaJIT to protect massive swathes of the Internet. This kind of butterfly eff…
The guys who were fined for manipulating the NASDAQ closing auction?
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-10-16/high-spee...