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The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

propublica.org

41–50 of 275 posts

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#41
post #8

I always assumed that the expiration date was partly legal, in the way that you only have 1 year within which you can legally have the drug in your system. I mean, if I am prescribed oxycontin, can I legally have the drug in my system for the rest of my life?

In the United States, you can be prosecuted in some states for drug possession if your prescription has expired and you still have the drugs [1]. This has not been sufficiently tested with the Supreme Court so you could eventually win on appeal but not before spending lots of money and time behind bars.

[1] https://edfolsomlaw.com/2013/01/illegal-possession-of-your-o...

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#42
"Berkowitz picks up a box of sodium bicarbonate, which is crucial for heart surgery and to treat certain overdoses. It’s being rationed because there’s so little available."

Huh? US hospitals have a shortage of Baking Soda?

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#43

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

I think you're confusing percentage of concentration with the threshold of potency.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#44
post #33
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only solution is to fix the economic incentives so that drug manufacturers want to make less wasteful medicines. Same with preventing planned obsolescence. The only solution is to encourage more competition.

Or we could just make it illegal. Then again, with today's political climate it wouldn't surprise me if someone was unironically opposed to regulating drug manufacturers.

Laws are merely barriers to work around, incentives guide what's going to be attempted. Making something illegal adds some negative incentive, but isn't nearly as good a solution as simply having positive incentive to do the right thing.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#45
This article has some shoddy logic. For the vast majority of drugs, the actual marginal manufacturing price per pill is essentially zero. That means that when the expired pills are thrown away and new pills are manufactured, there is no true economic loss. Rather, all that potentially happens is a transfer between the consumer and the manufacturer.

If pill prices were set by some external force, this could at least be an important society-wide transfer. But in fact, in equilibrium pill prices will be affected by the expected rate at which pills expire without being consumed. Even when manufactures have a monopoly, the manufacturer-surplus maximizing price is determined by the demand curve of the consumer which takes into account the expiry rate of pills. (If 10% of pills expire before I consume them, they are worth 10% less to me in expectation.)

Yes, I'm sure there are market model where expiry dates create net economic drag, or a net value transfer between manufacturer and consumer, but it's not even clear which direction the transfer goes. Such an analysis depends on the details of the world and how they are reflected in your model, which are completely absent in this article. Most importantly, the intuition that "letting $100 pills expire for no good reason must cause $100 of damage" is completely false when the marginal cost of manufacturing is low.

(There are exceptions where the marginal manufacturing process is expensive, but the article doesn't focus on these.)

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#46

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

When working with biological systems, most of the time your acceptable error margin is between 10-25%. There are a few compounds (like fentanyl or LSD) where the dosages are so small and the compound so potent that 10-25% makes a difference but for the majority, precision isn't that critical. The ones where it does matter are tightly controlled and clinically applied by a professional with active monitoring. The only…

And to add into that, dosage studies are rarely adequately done for most drugs. The dose we take is often a best guess and may be twice or more than we need, so 10% is even more inconsequential.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#47

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

When working with biological systems, most of the time your acceptable error margin is between 10-25%. There are a few compounds (like fentanyl or LSD) where the dosages are so small and the compound so potent that 10-25% makes a difference but for the majority, precision isn't that critical. The ones where it does matter are tightly controlled and clinically applied by a professional with active monitoring. The only…

Any idea whether the chemicals they decompose into are ever more harmful than the original?

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#48
post #34

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

I work for a company that has some periphery exposure to FDA-regulation, and as a result we have to do a lot of very similar scientific calculations to satisfy their archival records. A big part of why most medicines still expire (at least for medicines available over the counter) much earlier than they should is that a majority of the testing is done to determine the expiration date at a controlled temperature, pres…

Great comment, and I couldn't agree more.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#49

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

Don't Drug MFGs know this and are allowed to "donate" to weak economies.

Re: The Myth of Drug Expiration Dates

#50

> The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations. What kind of reporting is this? Anything less than 100% is not "as potent as when manufactured", and the sentence implies some of those dozen weren't close to 100%. > The idea that drugs expire on specified dates goes back at…

When working with biological systems, most of the time your acceptable error margin is between 10-25%. There are a few compounds (like fentanyl or LSD) where the dosages are so small and the compound so potent that 10-25% makes a difference but for the majority, precision isn't that critical. The ones where it does matter are tightly controlled and clinically applied by a professional with active monitoring. The only…

> There are a few compounds (like fentanyl or LSD) where the dosages are so small and the compound so potent that 10-25% makes a difference but for the majority, precision isn't that critical.

Wrong. Therapeutic ratio, not dosage.

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