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The Limitations of Deep Learning

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Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#61
post #5

As someone primarily interested in interpretation of deep models, I strongly resonate with this warning against anthropomorphization of neural networks. Deep learning isn't special; deep models tend to be more accurate than other methods, but fundamentally they aren't much closer to working like the human brain than e.g. gradient boosting models. I think a lot of the issue stems from layman explanations of neural net…

I agree with your position. But I want to add a warning against the humanization of the brain. Many parts of it are complex in unknown ways, but some parts are truly mechanical.

The parts of your central nervous system that respond to reflexes, that locate the source of sound or parse the color of retinal input are far more similar to deep learning algorithms than they are to what we think of as human consciousness.

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#62

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why wider & deeper networks won't do the job. If it took "sufficiently large" networks and "sufficiently many" examples, I don't understand why it wouldn't just take another order of magnitude of "sufficiency." If you look at the example with the blue dots on the bottom, would it not just take many more blue dots to fill in what the neural network doesn't know? I understand that addi…

"sufficiently large" could be much more than number of atoms in the universe. You just do not have resources to run computation at such scale.

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#63

Surely we shouldn't rush to anthropomorphize neural networks, but we'd ignoring the obvious if we didn't at least note that neural networks do seem to share some structural similarities with our own brains, at least at a very low level, and that they seem to do well with a lot of pattern-recognition problems that we've traditionally considered to be co-incident with brains rather than logical systems. The article not…

>In particular, I'm thinking of Dual Process Theory

Which has been at least partly debunked as psychology's replication crisis went on, and has been called into question on the neuroscientific angle as well.

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#64
post #42

I think the requirement for a large amount of data is the biggest objection to the reflex "AI will replace [insert your profession here] soon" that many techies, in particular on HN, have. There are many professions where there is very little data available to learn from. In some case (self-driving), companies will invest large amount of money to build this data, by running lots of test self-driving cars, or paying p…

> and will keep doing so until the cost of developing and maintaining software or AI has dropped to zero. I have no idea about the progress of AI, but normal software will get an order of magnitude cheaper to develop as we slowly wake up from the Unix/worse-is-better/everything-is-text mindset and abandon the dynamically typed and imperative languages, broken systems abstractions, etc. that hold us back.

May God will it that the heathens should see the light and come to Haskell ;-).

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#65
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, we do understand how neurons work, at least on a singular level. Perceptrons model that quite well.

But how does a neuron decide to grow new axons or how to change input weights? Biological neurons does this when solving tasks and not just during training. Isn't it possible that human-like intelligence depends on the network being dynamic? For example, when you play a game for the first time a lot of things suddenly starts to click, couldn't that be the result of new connections forming or at least some weights bei…

Don't fully connected layers do exactly what you describe?

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#66
On the limitations of machine learning as in the OP, the OP is correct.

So, right, current approaches to "machine learning* as in the OP have some serious "limitations". But this point is a small, tiny special case of something else much larger and more important: Current approaches to "machine learning" as in the OP are essentially some applied math, and applied math is commonly much more powerful than machine learning as in the OP and has much less severe limitations.

Really, "machine learning" as in the OP is not learning in any significantly meaningful sense at all. Really, apparently, the whole field of "machine learning" is heavily just hype from the deceptive label "machine learning". That hype is deceptive, apparently deliberately so, and unprofessional.

Broadly machine learning as in the OP is a case of old empirical curve fitting where there is a long history with a lot of approaches quite different from what is in the OP. Some of the approaches are under some circumstances much more powerful than what is in the OP.

The attention to machine learning is omitting a huge body of highly polished knowledge usually much more powerful. In a cooking analogy, you are being sold a state fair corn dog, which can be good, instead of everything in Escoffier,

Prosper Montagné, Larousse Gastronomique: The Encyclopedia of Food, Wine, and Cookery, ISBN 0-517-503336, Crown Publishers, New York, 1961.

Essentially, for machine learning as in the OP, if (A) have a LOT of training data, (B) a lot of testing data, (C) by gradient descent or whatever build a model of some kind that fits the training data, and (D) the model also predicts well on the testing data, then (E) may have found something of value.

But the test in (D) is about the only assurance of any value. And the value in (D) needs an assumption: Applications of the model will in some suitable sense, rarely made clear, be close to the training data.

Such fitting goes back at least to

Leo Breiman, Jerome H. Friedman, Richard A. Olshen, Charles J. Stone, Classification and Regression Trees, ISBN 0-534-98054-6, Wadsworth & Brooks/Cole, Pacific Grove, California, 1984.

not nearly new. This work is commonly called CART, and there has long been corresponding software.

And CART goes back to versions of regression analysis that go back maybe 100 years.

So, sure, in regression analysis, we are given points on an X-Y coordinate system and want to fit a straight line so that as a function of points on the X axis the line does well approximating the points on the X-Y plot. Being more specific could use some mathematical notation awkward for simple typing and, really, likely not needed here.

Well, to generalize, the X axis can have several dimensions, that is, accommodate several variables. The result is multiple linear regression.

For more, there is a lot with a lot of guarantees. Can find those in short and easy form in

Alexander M. Mood, Franklin A. Graybill, and Duane C. Boas, Introduction to the Theory of Statistics, Third Edition, McGraw-Hill, New York, 1974.

with more detail but still easy form in

N. R. Draper and H. Smith, Applied Regression Analysis, John Wiley and Sons, New York, 1968.

with much more detail and carefully done in

C. Radhakrishna Rao, Linear Statistical Inference and Its Applications: Second Edition, ISBN 0-471-70823-2, John Wiley and Sons, New York, 1967.

Right, this stuff is not nearly new.

So, with some assumptions, get lots of guarantees on the accuracy of the fitted model.

This is all old stuff.

The work in machine learning has added some details to the old issue of over fitting, but, really, the math in old regression takes that into consideration -- a case of over fitting will usually show up in larger estimates for errors.

There is also spline fitting, fitting from Fourier analysis, autoregressive integrated moving average processes,

David R. Brillinger, Time Series Analysis: Data Analysis and Theory, Expanded Edition, ISBN 0-8162-1150-7, Holden-Day, San Francisco, 1981.

and much more.

But, let's see some examples of applied math that totally knocks the socks off model fitting:

(1) Early in civilization, people noticed the stars and the ones that moved in complicated paths, the planets. Well Ptolemy built some empirical models based on epi-cycles that seemed to fit the data well and have good predictive value.

But much better work was from Kepler who discovered that, really, if assume that the sun stays still and the earth moves around the sun, then the paths of planets are just ellipses.

Next Newton invented the second law of motion, the law of gravity, and calculus and used them to explain the ellipses.

So, what Kepler and Newton did was far ahead of what Ptolemy did.

Or, all Ptolemy did was just some empirical fitting, and Kepler and Newton explained what was really going on and, in particular, came up with much better predictive models.

Empirical fitting lost out badly.

Note that once Kepler assumed that the sun stands still and the earth moves around the sun, actually he didn't need much data to determine the ellipses. And Newton needed nearly no data at all except to check is results.

Or, Kepler and Newton had some good ideas, and Ptolemy had only empirical fitting.

(2) The history of physical science is just awash in models derived from scientific principles that are, then, verified by fits to data.

E.g., some first principles derivations shows what the acoustic power spectrum of the 3 K background radiation should be, and the fit to the actual data from WMAP, etc. was astoundingly close.

News Flash: Commonly some real science or even just real engineering principles totally knocks the socks off empirical fitting, for much less data.

(3) E.g., here is a fun example I worked up while in a part time job in grad school: I got some useful predictions for an enormously complicated situation out of a little applied math and nearly no data at all.

I was asked to predict what the survivability of the US SSBN fleet would be under a special scenario of global nuclear war limited to sea.

Well, there was a WWII analysis by B. Koopman that showed that in search, say, of a submarine for a surface ship, an airplane for a submarine, etc. the encounter rates were approximately a Poisson process.

So, for all the forces in that war at sea, for the number of forces surviving, with some simplifying assumptions, we have a continuous time, discrete state space Markov process subordinated to a Poisson process. The details of the Markov process are from a little data about detection radii and the probabilities at a detection, one dies, the other dies, both die, or neither die.

That's all there was to the set up of the problem, the model.

Then to evaluate the model, just use Monte Carlo to run off, say, 500 sample paths, average those, appeal to the strong law of large numbers, and presto, bingo, done. Also can easily put up some confidence intervals.

The customers were happy.

Try to do that analysis with big data and machine learning and will be in deep, bubbling, smelly, reeking, flaming, black and orange, toxic sticky stuff.

So, a little applied math, some first principles of physical science, or some solid engineering data commonly totally knocks the socks off machine learning as in the OP.

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#67
A neat technique to help 'explain' models is LIME: https://www.oreilly.com/learning/introduction-to-local-inter...

There is a video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUnRCxnydCc

I think this has some better examples than the Panda vs Gibbon example in the OP if you want to 'see' why a model may classify a tree-frog as a tree-frog vs a billiard (for example). IMO this suggests some level of anthropomorphizing is useful for understanding and building models as the pixels the model picks up aren't really too dissimilar to what I imagine a naive, simple, mind might use. (i.e the tree-frog's goofy face) We like to look at faces for lots of reasons but one of them probably is because they're usually more distinct which is the same, rough, reason why the model likes the face. This is interesting (to me at least) even if it's just matrix multiplication (or uncrumpling high dimensional manifolds) underneath the hood,

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#68
post #58
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have ML or deep learning background (no Masters or PhD), adding comment from experience with backtesting trading systems. We will collect market data and design algorithms that seem to produce the kind of outcomes we want. Then test on some other data sets which the algorithms have never been applied on. Many iterations later, you can get a decent profitable algorithm. And if the 'holy grail' algo is run in m…

> The quality of the algo and I assume the deep learning model lies in the quality (breadth and depth) of the data, and how honest with himself the person choose to model it. I've only dabbled with machine-learning here and there for the past 10 years or so, but if there's one thing I've learned so far is that the data behind your ML code (and the way it is structured) is responsible for almost all the success or fai…

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm happy that my previous exposure to trading algorithms at least helped me understand more what the experts here are talking about. I believe the output model is only as good as the data (at least for the deep learning branch of ML). If the dataset does not cover data-points which exist in a wider space but in the same domain of the problem, or which haven't yet have a precedent, then we really can't simply assume that it is the algo/model that needs tweaking when shit hits the fan.

Re: The Limitations of Deep Learning

#70
My qualm with this article is disappointingly poorly backed up. The author makes claims, but does not justify those claims well enough to convince anyone but people who already agree with him. In that sense, this piece is an opinion piece, masquerading as a science.

> This is because a deep learning model is "just" a chain of simple, continuous geometric transformations mapping one vector space into another. All it can do is map one data manifold X into another manifold Y, assuming the existence of a learnable continuous transform from X to Y, and the availability of a dense sampling of X:Y to use as training data. So even though a deep learning model can be interpreted as a kind of program, inversely most programs cannot be expressed as deep learning models [why?]—for most tasks, either there exists no corresponding practically-sized deep neural network that solves the task [why?], or even if there exists one, it may not be learnable, i.e. the corresponding geometric transform may be far too complex [???], or there may not be appropriate data available to learn it [like what?].

> Scaling up current deep learning techniques by stacking more layers and using more training data can only superficially palliate some of these issues [why?]. It will not solve the more fundamental problem that deep learning models are very limited in what they can represent, and that most of the programs that one may wish to learn cannot be expressed as a continuous geometric morphing of a data manifold. [really? why?]

I tend to disagree with these opinions, but I think the authors opinions aren't unreasonable, I just wish he would explain them rather than re-iterating them.

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