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Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

forbes.com

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Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#381

Post by needlessly »

dsacco wrote: post #32
needlessly wrote: post #21

I don't get people who say, "Well I would never hire someone who has never worked more than 5 years at a single place!!!" I would never have increased my from $68k to $115k in 5 years.I probably would've been somewhere at like $80k right now at best if I was didn't switch jobs twice. If it means some hiring manager is going say some snarky opinion, then yes I'll take my extra money.

Do you mind sharing what region you're in? You may have found it was easy to significantly increase your compensation because you were significantly underpaid , instead of just because you were frequently changing jobs.

midwest. My starting pay was only a couple thousand below my my university's CS program's average (wasn't the strongest student coming out), but it was within range of glassdoor reviews. I stayed at for 2.5 years at each role.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#382

Post by varelse »

elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

True. And although I wouldn't do this every 6-12 months myself, I do interview a couple times a year just to keep my interviewing skills sharp because you're right, everyone is an expendable at-will employee.

I only escalate if I find out I could be making 25% more or greater by leaving for a desirable gig elsewhere. At that point, yep, I'm underpaid. Otherwise, I suspect you are overoptimizing one axis of employment potentially at the expense of the rest.

That said, I've never been at a tech company where people have been promoted every 6 months. At best, every year, and more like biannually or worse.

Finally, don't play games like this if you're not a superachiever. You will be shown the door. And while you can fool some of the employers all of the time, once you've hopped enough times, it starts being used against you in hiring.

But I agree that one shouldn't get attached to any job, it could go away in an instant.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#383

Post by needlessly »

draw_down wrote: post #337
djloche wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the past 5 years there's been a ton of realization from non SF/NYC/VC-tech companies in the fact that they are competing from the same pool of talent and thus have to offer competitive salaries on a national basis, not just competitive for their area/city. There is still a ton of progress to be made in this regard, but it is changing. for example, a hypothetical newly graduated programmer with some skills…

Hmm, a lot of young people have the mentality that they'll learn more and go farther in their careers if they go to SF/SV to start, even if their adjusted salary is lower. I can't say whether they're right for sure, but it sounds right to me. I think my career has "suffered" for never having lived there. (I'm still doing just fine.)

i've been working in the midwest, but I don't doubt that networking is much better in the Bay Area / Seattle.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#384

Post by [deleted] »

magnetic wrote: post #365
coldtea wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. If the employee is only motivated by money, he will be gone rather sooner than later as there is always a higher offer around. What else would they be motivated by? It's not their hobby. This doesn't mean they are also not into programming and coding challenges -- but those are constants that they can find in another employer too. if they like the programming, it's not that they can't find a programming job else…

> What else would they be motivated by? The actual work (what is being done), the mission of the company (are you helping kids send pictures that disappear after 10 seconds or are you working on finding a cure to hearing loss?), the team, the location (do I have to spend 2h commuting?), the opportunities to learn, the opportunities to grow, etc. We each value different things, but if money is your only consideration,…

[deleted]

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#385

Post by malka »

magnetic wrote: post #365
coldtea wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. If the employee is only motivated by money, he will be gone rather sooner than later as there is always a higher offer around. What else would they be motivated by? It's not their hobby. This doesn't mean they are also not into programming and coding challenges -- but those are constants that they can find in another employer too. if they like the programming, it's not that they can't find a programming job else…

> What else would they be motivated by? The actual work (what is being done), the mission of the company (are you helping kids send pictures that disappear after 10 seconds or are you working on finding a cure to hearing loss?), the team, the location (do I have to spend 2h commuting?), the opportunities to learn, the opportunities to grow, etc. We each value different things, but if money is your only consideration,…

As soon as companies are loyal to their employee, I will be loyal to them.

Work is a simple contract. I give time. I get money. Period. The company will not hesitate to throw me under the bus if it can bring more money, and I do not see why I should be more considerate toward them ?

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#386

Post by lr4444lr »

PacketPaul wrote: post #168
josephjrobison wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Forbes ever a respectable publication though? I ask with all sincerity. It seems their volume is super high and that's about it, so they get name recognition from repetition, not sure what else from.

Yes. Like the Bruno Mars song says "I want to be on the cover of Forbes magazine...". At one time that was a big deal.

You're charitable. I had always chalked that up to Bruno Mars not know what the hell he was talking about.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#387

Post by daemin »

WalterSear wrote: post #91
FRex wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of a population can easily be above average in a real life scenario where most of the group is roughly equal with few elements dragging the average slightly below their level. Example: nine 11s and one 10, the average is 10.9 and 90% of the population is above it. If you want to split a group in half then you need to use the median.

I'm glad that someone is finally giving the 0.1x programmers like myself the credit the deserve.

That would still be higher than the 0.0x Wally in the Dilbert comics.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#388

Post by varelse »

scaryclam wrote: post #112
elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

I imagine this is good advice in some places, but as a line manager, if you pull this on me I'm more than likely to shake your hand and wish you luck in your new job. In a lot of places, having a talk with your manager about your salary before going off and actively looking for other offers is going to go down a lot better. Most line managers worth working for, value their teams and will fight for them if they are un…

I would get the data first before approaching you and then lie about whether I had already done so. It's the sort of white lie that protects both parties. If your dog died that day, you might just fire me on the spot. Or if I'm making close to market rate, I should STFU and stop trying to microoptimize.

But if I have uncovered a huge pay discrepancy, you have already failed me. Both you and your HR department in fact. Sadly, I suspect that across many individuals, this is a winning strategy because most people don't actively manage their careers (to their detriment).

If the company has cutbacks, everyone's head is on the guillotine and it's time to jump ship anyway before the signal hits the employment market.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#389

Post by sidlls »

crusso wrote: post #347
coldtea wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The person to whom you're responding explicitly drew a distinction between discussing a raise with your boss vs going to your boss with another offer that you have secured. Because it's only OK to ask for a raise when the boss has the upper hand?

Has the boss brought someone in to replace you and said, "Okay, Coldtea, we found someone to replace you at your job. He's as good as you and he'll take a 10% cut in salary over what we pay you. Do you want to take a pay cut so you can stay?" That would be the upper hand. Before that, it's just a discussion.

That's the default situation, even in software, although more often it's in this form: "Okay, Jon Employee, our company had a bad quarter, we're going to have to ask employees to make some sacrifices." Then Jon Employee is laid off and subsequently has his position filled by somebody much more junior at far more than a 10% discount.

This industry doesn't value engineering experience. It values breadth over depth. There are some exceptions. But the data are what they are.

Re: Employees Who Stay in Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

#390

Post by jotjotzzz »

elnygren wrote: post #107

Best way to increase salary at current workplace? Get offers from other companies & ask for a meeting with your boss (or whoever decides your pay, so HR etc.). Bring up the offers, discuss what you'd get from there and also go through the potential career you could build at those companies. For example: Consultancy X would pay me $k/mo and every 6months it will go up the ladder if I perform well. With this kind of di…

"Get offers from other companies" mean you are doing a job search and interviewing to get a job in that company. Once they offer you a job, you get that offer letter. Most people do this when they are already fed up with their current employer and are ready to move on. So this advice means -- actively search (best time to get a job is when you have a job).

Pitfalls with this advice: your current employer is not dubious. They may know you are actively searching. In addition, once you have an offer and you bring this up -- your current employer will "try" to match that offer to try to keep you. Why? Often times this is the default to avoid disruption and often times you are well-liked and they actually do want to keep you. They may also try to "keep you temporarily" -- until they can replace you. Once you have said "you have an offer" it acts as a flag to you. Which can also mean you may be the first to go if anything happens such as layoffs. Thread carefully.

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